Lee's act of treason, but Grant saved him from trial.


(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)

Viper21

Sergeant Major
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
2,093
Location
Rockbridge County, Virginia
#2
Here is a good article explaining the reality of treason trails of the Rebel Lee after the civil war.

https://www.civilwarprofiles.com/grant-protects-lee-from-treason-trial/

Grant stated Lee could not be tried for treason as long as he obeyed his parole that was given to the rebels at the time of surrender at Appox.

How can you be pardoned of something unless you are guilty of it?
Lee was never pardoned in his lifetime. Likewise, he was never convicted of treason. Therefore, he is not guilty of treason, & to say so, is blasphemous in my opinion :cool:
 

WJC

Brigadier General
Moderator
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
10,656
#3
There is little doubt that Lee committed treason. As with any alleged crime, it is up to the Prosecutor to decide whether to pursue the case. The Federal government chose not to proceed because it would not be in the nation's best interest. It would have been a betrayal of the Appomattox surrender. Further, the venue for any trial would have been Virginia, where it was most unlikely that Lee would be found guilty.
Lee was not pardoned in his lifetime. It was only done as a political stunt in 1975.
 

ebg12

Corporal
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
285
#5
There is little doubt that Lee committed treason. As with any alleged crime, it is up to the Prosecutor to decide whether to pursue the case. The Federal government chose not to proceed because it would not be in the nation's best interest. It would have been a betrayal of the Appomattox surrender. Further, the venue for any trial would have been Virginia, where it was most unlikely that Lee would be found guilty.
Lee was not pardoned in his lifetime. It was only done as a political stunt in 1975.
Agreed...there is a difference between parole and pardon. the Rebels were paroled at Appox., and could be tried if the violated their parole terms.
 

Viper21

Sergeant Major
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
2,093
Location
Rockbridge County, Virginia
#7
I did not know Lee was a God? Look at the terms of surrender that General Grant gave to Lee at Appox.
Learn something new everyday :cool:

Lee did apply to have his rights restored though:

"Being excluded from the provisions of amnesty & pardon contained in the proclamation of the 29th Ulto; I hereby apply for the benefits, & full restoration of all rights & privileges extended to those included in its terms. I graduated at the Mil. Academy at West Point in June 1829. Resigned from the U.S. Army April '61. Was a General in the Confederate Army, & included in the surrender of the Army of N. Va. 9 April '65."

https://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2005/spring/piece-lee.html
 

WJC

Brigadier General
Moderator
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
10,656
#8
Learn something new everyday :cool:

Lee did apply to have his rights restored though:

"Being excluded from the provisions of amnesty & pardon contained in the proclamation of the 29th Ulto; I hereby apply for the benefits, & full restoration of all rights & privileges extended to those included in its terms. I graduated at the Mil. Academy at West Point in June 1829. Resigned from the U.S. Army April '61. Was a General in the Confederate Army, & included in the surrender of the Army of N. Va. 9 April '65."

https://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2005/spring/piece-lee.html
It was lost in the bureaucracy and not acted upon, only to become part of the discussion in 1975.
Lee's Lost Application.jpg
 

archieclement

2nd Lieutenant
Forum Host
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
3,427
Location
mo
#13
I did not know Lee was a God? Look at the terms of surrender that General Grant gave to Lee at Appox.
Not being convicted of anything makes one a God? We have alot of gods then.

In our legal system one is innocent until proven guilty, so as far as our legal system is concerned he is innocent, If one respects our legal values he also would considered innocent.

As far individuals go they can believe in anything they want, as evidenced by believers of bigfoot, aliens, various conspiracy theories ect, I would imagine theres some who dont require actual convictions for guilt.....actually I know there has been as evidenced by lynch mobs though our history who had that mentality...…..so not everyone respects our legal values
 

ebg12

Corporal
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
285
#14
Not being convicted of anything makes one a God? We have alot of gods then.

In our legal system one is innocent until proven guilty, so as far as our legal system is concerned he is innocent, If one respects our legal values he also would considered innocent.

As far individuals go they can believe in anything they want, as evidenced by believers of bigfoot, aliens, various conspiracy theories ect, I would imagine theres some who dont require actual convictions for guilt.....actually I know there has been as evidenced by lynch mobs though our history who had that mentality...…..
but didn't the terms of surrender at Appox. include a parole? A parole for what then, if not for treason?
 

archieclement

2nd Lieutenant
Forum Host
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
3,427
Location
mo
#16
but didn't the terms of surrender at Appox. include a parole? A parole for what then, if not for treason?
Does it say Treason? Dont think so, the confederates still had forces in the field, a parole during the CW simply meant one wouldn't take up arms until exchanged. No different then confederates who were paroled at Vicksburg, they had to wait to be exchanged before taking up arms again

Suppose you think Pemberton was a god or all of the CSA forces at Vicksburg who Grant likewise paroled? Every surrender during the CW included a parole, including Union troops who had surrendered...…..
 
Last edited:

Viper21

Sergeant Major
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
2,093
Location
Rockbridge County, Virginia
#18
if they did not violate their parole terms, would there be a need too?
If you wanna claim someone was treasonous, or committed treason, you need to convict them in a court of law.

As Archie has pointed out, our country operates it's judicial system on, the presumption of innocence. Quite simply defined as, innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. It is slanderous to claim someone is guilty of a crime, they've never been convicted of, unless of course, they admit guilt.
 

ebg12

Corporal
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
285
#19
Does it say Treason? Dont think so, the confederates still had forces in the field, a parole during the CW simply meant one wouldn't take up arms until exchanged. No different then confederates who were paroled at Vicksburg, they had to wait to be exchanged before taking up arms again

Suppose you think Pemberton was a god or all of the CSA forces at Vicksburg who Grant likewise paroled?
Was Lee a prisoner of Grant's at Appox.? Was not Lee and the other rebels paroled at Appox.?

After reading Lee’s letter, Grant forwarded his own views to Secretary of War Edwin Stanton on June 16, 1865:

In my opinion the officers and men paroled at Appomattox Court-House, and since, upon the same terms given to Lee, cannot be tried for treason so long as they observe the terms of their parole. This is my understanding. Good faith, as well as true policy, dictates that we should observe the conditions of that convention. Bad faith on the part of the Government, or a construction of that convention subjecting the officers to trial for treason, would produce a feeling of insecurity in the minds of all the paroled officers and men. If so disposed they might even regard such an infraction of terms by the Government as an entire release from all obligations on their part. I will state further that the terms granted by me met with the hearty approval of the President at the time, and of the country generally. The action of Judge Underwood, in Norfolk, has already had an injurious effect, and I would ask that he be ordered to quash all indictments found against paroled prisoners of war, and to desist from further prosecution of them.
 

Lost Cause

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
2,945
#20

Similar threads




(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)
Top