Leave as is or reproduction carriage?

major bill

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Aug 25, 2012
http://www.stowetoday.com/news_and_...cle_2c7549a8-d5fd-11e7-9ceb-ab766b14fcb4.html


I was wondering if Civil War relics should remain as is or get a facelift by replaying items. This is an article about a cannon that had been sitting on the ground with it's two fulcrums in cement getting a reproduction carriage. I was wondering just how far Civil War relics on display should have facelifts. Would a musket with a damaged or missing stock look better with a new reproduction stock?
 
I would say it depends on the purpose. A cannon tube sitting on the ground I think is okay to have a reproduction carriage made. Especially since the tube itself isn't damaged by setting there.
 
It would have been fine if the carriage was an exact replica (wood) instead of that metal thing its on now.
 
It would have been fine if the carriage was an exact replica (wood) instead of that metal thing its on now.

How long would a wood carriage last outside in the rain and snow? Perhaps only a few years? I don't know if the reproduction carriage would look "presentable" after even five years. The cannon could be stored inside over the winter. Is there some kind of coating that could protect the wood from snow and rain?
 
To replace the carriage, exactly, (in my opinion) is not a sin. It is only wood and that is an organic material....it wont last nearly as long as the metal parts. And there is the chance the wood came from the same forest as the original.
 
To replace the carriage, exactly, (in my opinion) is not a sin. It is only wood and that is an organic material....it wont last nearly as long as the metal parts. And there is the chance the wood came from the same forest as the original.
It aint fittin, it just aint fittin:cold:

Is there some kind of coating that could protect the wood from snow and rain?
I build all of mine from solid white oak, then painted with a THICK oil base paint and then clear coated and if cared for will last for over 100 years.
 
If the goal is to show what the cannon was like on the day of battle then yes, put it on a new carriage. It probably had wheels and even the whole carriage replaced several times if it faced hard combat. If it is an artifact then keep it as found. In any case the metal carriage is misleading.
 
I can understand the intent of the facelift. Still I do have questions about this particular facelift. Still this is an interesting news article and does show some of the things happening with Civil War monuments and such.
 
Consider the USS Constitution. There are few, if any, original wooden parts left on the ship that date to the War of 1812, particularly those parts exposed to the elements. The hull and masts have all been replaced several times over the years. If they hadn't been, there would be no Constitution. So, with that as a precedent, it's okay to put the tube on an authentic, repro carriage. And when that carriage's rotted away, put it on another one. And another one after that.
 
So, with that as a precedent, it's okay to put the tube on an authentic, repro carriage. And when that carriage's rotted away, put it on another one. And another one after that.

:dance:
 
7daf1c05ca50ae826bcc2725edcdc776.jpg


There are two CW bronze guns -- Napoleons, I think -- on the grounds of the Texas State Capitol in Austin. They're on metal carriages that look like the original wood pattern -- they even have the wood grain to them. They're weather resistant and look great.
 
All the cannons on the Gettysburg battlefield are on metal carriages that were designed for outdoor display of CW cannons. Wooden carriages left out in the weather would rot quickly and quickly need replacing ... not to mention they would quickly look pretty shabby. Which is better, a whole battlefield covered with rotting displays, or nice displays of the cannons.... keeping in mind that the metal carriages are being constantly repaired and painted not only by full-time staff, but also with the help of volunteers.... It is a huge job even with metal carriages.
 
There are two CW bronze guns -- Napoleons, I think -- on the grounds of the Texas State Capitol in Austin. They're on metal carriages that look like the original wood pattern -- they even have the wood grain to them. They're weather resistant and look great.

They do look great. Don't get me wrong Steen does nice work and these are Steen carraiges but there is something about a weld where the carriage steps down that bothers me but that's just me. Besides those tubes will patina and the carriage won't.

steen.jpg
 
I think it very appropriate to display the cannon as it was used during its military purpose. I see it no different than the many originals utilized on National Battlefield Parks. Children and many adults should be able to visualize what these now silent sentinels looked like during their military purpose.

Imagine if all of the cannon, at Gettysburg, were on the ground or on cement pedestals, it would be very difficult for the visitor to the field to visualize what these guns and batteries looked like. Those that are not able to make the journey to the battlefields can see, in their hometowns, what many gave their lives to defend. Guns were much like banners/flags, to be protected at all costs, there was pride in bringing all of your ordinance off of the field.

You don't see a Sherman, Bulldog or Patton tank outside the VFW without wheels or treads. Just MHO.
 
I've changed my opinion of the metal carriages after reflecting on them. If they show the cannon the way they appeared during the battles and it is possible to have more in place then it is a good thing. Seeing a line of cannon where a line of cannon fought is better than having one or two cannon with rotting wood where there should be twenty or thirty.
 
I've changed my opinion of the metal carriages after reflecting on them. If they show the cannon the way they appeared during the battles and it is possible to have more in place then it is a good thing. Seeing a line of cannon where a line of cannon fought is better than having one or two cannon with rotting wood where there should be twenty or thirty.
I agree. If they look very similar to period, but will endure weathering...it is a win-win. Personally, I like the metal with embedded wood grain as shown on the Napoleans above in the thread. Just my opinion, they do look similar to original.
 
Gettysburg 1890 (2).jpg
I've changed my opinion of the metal carriages after reflecting on them. If they show the cannon the way they appeared during the battles and it is possible to have more in place then it is a good thing. Seeing a line of cannon where a line of cannon fought is better than having one or two cannon with rotting wood where there should be twenty or thirty.
If you look at the old photographs of the battlefield (Gettysburg) 1880's the carriages were rotting and some tubes were on the ground, others were on steel (spring) carriages, while others were on concrete pedestals. OSHA would have a field day on the old battlefield.
little-round-top-gettysburg.jpg
Whitworth Gettysburg.jpg
Whitworth Gettysburg.jpg
 
They do look great. Don't get me wrong Steen does nice work and these are Steen carraiges but there is something about a weld where the carriage steps down that bothers me but that's just me. Besides those tubes will patina and the carriage won't.
I saved the image and then zoomed in on the step-down. Could it be an optical illusion? The other side of the trail (visible above the prolonge hook) does appear to actualy change size. The painted wrought iron tube will not change color, though the sun may fade it a bit. The patina change is only evident on bronze tubes.

I would like to have seen a "before" image of the previous mounting. Placing the tube on a new Steen carriage is acceptable as long as the previous mount has not become historic itself. That would depend much on if it was dedicated by veterans. We have all seen tubes mounted on monuments and I would never advocate the removal of one of those unless something happened to the original base. At Shiloh NMP two tubes have been on display in the Shiloh National Cemetery for well over a hundred years, both on concrete foundations. One of those bases deteriorated to a point that it was beyond repair. This tube was mounted on a Steen No. 2 metal carriage and placed next to the monument for the 2nd Illinois Light Artillery, Battery B. The other, a 24lb Dahlgren boat howitzer is still on its original base in the cemetery.
 
If you look at the old photographs of the battlefield (Gettysburg) 1880's the carriages were rotting and some tubes were on the ground, others were on steel (spring) carriages, while others were on concrete pedestals. OSHA would have a field day on the old battlefield.
Yikes! Great but scary images. The three tubes balanced on the slabs is where OSHA would have gone nuts. Just imagine kids climbing on those!! The Whitworth looks like it was hit by a vehicle and knocked of the cement pads that secure it to the ground.

Tom
 
Yikes! Great but scary images. The three tubes balanced on the slabs is where OSHA would have gone nuts. Just imagine kids climbing on those!! The Whitworth looks like it was hit by a vehicle and knocked of the cement pads that secure it to the ground.

Tom
I thought that as well, but when you blow it up it shows the wheels are both dug in and pinioned. I think the trail just rotted and broke in half.
 
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