Kammerbuchse M1842/44 and M1849 tubelock plate "Console Augustin"

Urrikane

Private
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Hello guys!
another piece of my collection, the Kammerbuchse M1842/44 and M1849 Console Augustin Lockplate.
I have a question to ask: why is it called "Garibaldi rifle" in America?

Garibaldi and the "Garibaldini" (volunteers following Garibaldi) never had the Kammerbuchse, they have had Lorenz rifle (2,122 rifles were kept in the castle of Milan) Enfield, Colt revolver and Carbine revolver.

On January 15, 1860 Giuseppe Garibaldi thanked (with a letter in French) Samuel Colt for the gift of 94 revolvers and 6 revolving Carbine.
Garibaldi did not just accept the gift of the famous American, but he ordered another 200 revolvers and 55 revolving carbines.
It is uncertain whether they all arrived in time for the May 1860 expedition.


Let's go back to the guns:
The original 1842 M Kammerbüchse cartridge have a round ball wrapped in linen patch, tied to the end of the paper cartridge. The rifle had a Delvigne-style powder chamber (paper cartridge image from Dolleczek)

1842.JPG

In 1847 the first conical bullet of the Habsburg Army entered service for these arms.
both rifles ( M1842/44 and 1849) used the 1847 model conical bullet.
The bullet had one deep groove filled with a lubricated felt belt. This belt was responsible for sealing the gases and lubricating the bore

1847.JPG 1847-1.JPG

original shot bullet find on battle camp:
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and now the pictures of the rifle!
M1842/44 and bayonet
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M1849 and bayonet

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Don Dixon

Sergeant
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Location
Fairfax, VA, USA
Hello guys!
another piece of my collection, the Kammerbuchse M1842/44 and M1849 Console Augustin Lockplate.
I have a question to ask: why is it called "Garibaldi rifle" in America? Garibaldi and the "Garibaldini" (volunteers following Garibaldi) never had the Kammerbuchse, they have had Lorenz rifle (2,122 rifles were kept in the castle of Milan) Enfield, Colt revolver and Carbine revolver.

Urrikane,

That's a nice Muster 1849 Kammerbüchse. One doesn't see many of them in the States that haven't been transformed to percussion. I have an unconverted Muster 1844 in my collection.

You've asked a very good question about "Garibaldi" rifles. From my research, the Muster 1844 and 1849 Kammerbüchse were being referred to as "Garibaldi" rifles in Federal Army correspondence by the fall of 1861. The term started being used in official forms and ordnance publications early in 1862. Modern American arms historians have assumed, I believe incorrectly, that this was because Garibaldi's troops had carried Kammerbüchse in the Second Italian War of Independence in 1859 or the March of the Thousand in 1860. Some native born Americans, like Major Roberdeau Wheat of the 1st Special Battalion, Louisiana Infantry ("Wheat's Tigers), had served under Garibaldi. And, a number of immigrants from the Italian states, France, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire had either served with him or fought against him. Since these people ended up in the Federal and Confederate Armies, the idea appeared to make sense. However, I've found no English language sources which demonstrate to any degree of satisfaction that Garibaldi's people carried Kammerbüchse in either campaign.

I have long been convinced that some of the Muster 1854 System Lorenz rifles and Muster 1844 System Augustin muskets sold to the Federal Army had been captured by the Piedmontese Army and/or French Imperial Army during the Second Italian War of Independence, entered the military small arms surplus market in Europe, and were shipped to America by importers to arm American Civil War troops, sometimes after renovation in Liege.

I would be very interested in your sourcing regarding:

1. What arms Garibaldi's troops actually carried during the Second Italian War of Independence and the March of the Thousand.

2. What Austro-Hungarian arms were captured in northern Italy by the Piedmontese Army and/or French Imperial Army during the Second Italian War of Independence. British and American newspapers, for example, reported that on 6 June 1859 Emperor Napoleon III sent a cable to Empress Eugenie reporting that the city of Milan was in revolt against the k.k. Army, “The Austrians have evacuated the town and castle, leaving in their precipitation, cannon and the treasure of the army behind them. We are encumbered with prisoners, and have taken 12,000 Austrian muskets.” Undoubtedly, other captures of small arms were made from k.k. Army stockpiles in northern Italy and from battlefield recoveries. I know of no one else outside the Austro-Hungarian Empire who might have had substantive stocks of Muster 1854 rifle muskets and Extra Corps carbines in 1860 and early 1861, since these weapons were first line equipment in the k.k. Army at that time, and the Army had not yet been fully equipped with them.

We can go off-line if you would prefer.

Regards,
Don Dixon
 
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Urrikane

Private
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
this is the original letter from gribaldi to colt:

"Fino Mornasco 15 janvier 1860 Noble Colonel Colt Cytoien adoptif de la grand Republique, fier d’appartenir à la cause universelle des peuples j’accepte avec reconaissance, au nom de mon pais, votre offre sympathique et generueose. L’arrivée des vos armes serà saluée entre nous non seulements comme l’appui materiel envoye par un homme de couer à un peuple qui combat pours ses droits le plus sacrés mais commee le soutien puissamment moral de la Grande Nation Americaine ! Je suis avec affection Votre devoué Giuseppe Garibaldi"

english version :

"Fino Mornasco*, January 15th 1860
Noble Colonel Colt
Citizen of adoption of the Great Republic, proud to belong to the cause
universal of the people I gratefully accept, in my name and in the name of my country, your friendly and generous offer.
The arrival of your weapons will be welcomed among us not only as material support sent by a good man to a people fighting for its most sacred rights, but as a powerful support of the American Grande Nation!
With love, your devoted Giuseppe Garibaldi"

*Fino Mornasco it's a small city
 

Urrikane

Private
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
@Don Dixon
I confirm that all the austrian weapons have been sold to the Federal Army only by the Piedmontese Army ( rifle captured) not french army, the French usually destroyed them.

i try to respond inorder:
1-
March of the Thousand.
Garibaldi's troops were volunteer poor but brave.
At the request of Garibaldi, a monetary fund was created on donation, to collect money for the purchase of arms.
Initially they had old smoothboore flintlock rifles, in the battle of Marsala "the 1000" were equipped with flintlock brown bess, brown bess converted , lowell rifle, colt dragoon, colt navy, only 2 revolvers 1855 slide hammer , springfield colt conversion, enfield made by Escoffier.

Garibaldi could not recruit "for the march of 1000" the hunters of the Alps (special military corps, equipped with the fantastic Swiss federal rifle 1851) merged into the 46th regiment by former veteran Garibaldino Colonel Sacchi, nor from the 45th regiment as he wished, with the exception of five officers who joined to the Thousand, among which the Bandi. The provision not to recruit Sardinian soldiers was also applied by Bertani in the formation of subsequent shipments, to avoid or at least limit the Sardinian military to desert to enlist among the Garibaldians, even though there were many Sardinian soldiers and officers, ready to desert and sacrifice degrees and career, which were seen to refuse the request for recruitment Garibaldi.


Second Italian War of Independence
in the second war of independence, Garibaldi was general of the volunteers "hunters of the Alps"
The Hunters of the Alps was a special military corps created by Giuseppe Garibaldi in Cuneo on 20 February 1859 to help the regular Sardinian army to the Northern part of the Italian War of Independence.
As their name suggests, they operated in the Alps. Among their victories in the Second Italian War of Independence in 1859, they were those over the Austrians at Varese and Como.
Side of the Austrians, 1866, fighting the Prussian side against the Austrians. On this occasion, the 40,000 volunteers showed their value by achieving a decisive victory at the Battle of Bezzecca (21 July 1866).

the rifle for this volunteer soldiers:
french M1822T, M1840 e M1842 caliber 18mm;
Sardinian riflevM1842 e M1844 and carabine bersagliere 1856, caliber 17,5mm;
Enfiel P1853
Swiss federal rifle 1851 caliber 10.5mm


2-
Austro-Hungarian arms captured in northern Italy:
Infantry musket M1807 flitlock
Infantry musket M1838 flintlock
Infantry musket M1842 console augustin
Infantry musket M1842 conversion percussion
Kammerbuchse M1842/44 console augustin
Kammerbuchse M1842/44 conversion percussion
Kammerbuchse M1849 console augustin
Kammerbuchse M1849 conversion percussion
Lorenz M1854 first and secon line
Jagerstutzen M1854
Dornstutzen M1854
Kammerkarabiner 1851
cavalry pistol M1851
cavalry pistol M1854 Lorenz
 
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Urrikane

Private
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
@Don Dixon
in addition to these kammerbuchse I have only a model 1842/44 converted to percussion, unfortunately in Italy it is difficult to find M1849 converted percussion, because they had been overcome by lorentz and jager stutzen, the M1849 were in the warehouses and were converted by the Sardinian army ( modifications carried out also in Liège), for export to America.


The different conversions can be recognizedi, if you want to send me the photos of your guns, I can tell you if they are conversions of Austrian factory or Liegi or Sardinian.

For example, this is an Austrian factory conversion :
DSC_0100.JPGDSC_0099.JPG DSC_0110.JPG DSC_0114.JPG
 
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WJC

Major General
Judge Adv. Genl.
Thread Medic
Answered the Call for Reinforcements
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Thanks for sharing these photos and information of these beautiful firearms, until now unknown to me!
 

ucvrelics

Colonel
Forum Host
Regtl. Quartermaster Shiloh 2020
Asst. Regtl. Quartermaster Antietam 2021
Joined
May 7, 2016
Location
Alabama
Very Nice muskets Thanks for sharing your great collection. I have found several of the so-called Garibaldi bullets in CS camps and back in the early days all we had to go on was “CIVIL WAR PROJECTILES II” by W. Reid McKee & M.E. Mason, Jr. This Raleigh Arsenal Rifle Bullet is listed as “Italian” “Garibaldi” bullets. I know of zero association with Italy.

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Urrikane

Private
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Wow! Miniè bullet? Really interesting, who knows how to shoot the kammerbuchse with that ball, I'd like to try it! Do you have any drawings of that ball? What kind of associations are you looking for in Italy?
 

Urrikane

Private
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
@Don Dixon
I confirm that all the austrian weapons have been sold to the Federal Army only by the Piedmontese Army ( rifle captured) not french army, the French usually destroyed them.

i try to respond inorder:
1-
March of the Thousand.
Garibaldi's troops were volunteer poor but brave.
At the request of Garibaldi, a monetary fund was created on donation, to collect money for the purchase of arms.
Initially they had old smoothboore flintlock rifles, in the battle of Marsala "the 1000" were equipped with flintlock brown bess, brown bess converted , lowell rifle, colt dragoon, colt navy, only 2 revolvers 1855 slide hammer , springfield colt conversion, enfield made by Escoffier.

Garibaldi could not recruit "for the march of 1000" the hunters of the Alps (special military corps, equipped with the fantastic Swiss federal rifle 1851) merged into the 46th regiment by former veteran Garibaldino Colonel Sacchi, nor from the 45th regiment as he wished, with the exception of five officers who joined to the Thousand, among which the Bandi. The provision not to recruit Sardinian soldiers was also applied by Bertani in the formation of subsequent shipments, to avoid or at least limit the Sardinian military to desert to enlist among the Garibaldians, even though there were many Sardinian soldiers and officers, ready to desert and sacrifice degrees and career, which were seen to refuse the request for recruitment Garibaldi.


Second Italian War of Independence
in the second war of independence, Garibaldi was general of the volunteers "hunters of the Alps"
The Hunters of the Alps was a special military corps created by Giuseppe Garibaldi in Cuneo on 20 February 1859 to help the regular Sardinian army to the Northern part of the Italian War of Independence.
As their name suggests, they operated in the Alps. Among their victories in the Second Italian War of Independence in 1859, they were those over the Austrians at Varese and Como.
Side of the Austrians, 1866, fighting the Prussian side against the Austrians. On this occasion, the 40,000 volunteers showed their value by achieving a decisive victory at the Battle of Bezzecca (21 July 1866).

the rifle for this volunteer soldiers:
french M1822T, M1840 e M1842 caliber 18mm;
Sardinian riflevM1842 e M1844 and carabine bersagliere 1856, caliber 17,5mm;
Enfiel P1853
Swiss federal rifle 1851 caliber 10.5mm


2-
Austro-Hungarian arms captured in northern Italy:
Infantry musket M1807 flitlock
Infantry musket M1838 flintlock
Infantry musket M1842 console augustin
Infantry musket M1842 conversion percussion
Kammerbuchse M1842/44 console augustin
Kammerbuchse M1842/44 conversion percussion
Kammerbuchse M1849 console augustin
Kammerbuchse M1849 conversion percussion
Lorenz M1854 first and secon line
Jagerstutzen M1854
Dornstutzen M1854
Kammerkarabiner 1851
cavalry pistol M1851
cavalry pistol M1854 Lorenz

If you want and you are interested I can publish photos of all the guns listed and if you have asked you can list the data of these weapons
 

Don Dixon

Sergeant
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Location
Fairfax, VA, USA
@Don Dixon
in addition to these kammerbuchse I have only a model 1842/44 converted to percussion, unfortunately in Italy it is difficult to find M1849 converted percussion, because they had been overcome by lorentz and jager stutzen, the M1849 were in the warehouses and were converted by the Sardinian army ( modifications carried out also in Liège), for export to America.


The different conversions can be recognizedi, if you want to send me the photos of your guns, I can tell you if they are conversions of Austrian factory or Liegi or Sardinian.

For example, this is an Austrian factory conversion :
View attachment 209848View attachment 209849 View attachment 209850 View attachment 209851

I thought I would add some commentary to Urrikane's post regarding his transformed Muster 1842 musket, since it is a k.k. Army conversion uncommonly seen in the States.

As an interim measure as the Muster 1854 System Lorenz family of arms went into production, the k.k. Army used the following process to convert some System Augustin weapons to percussion. The external parts of the System Augustin tubelock were removed and the resulting holes in the lock plate were filled. A bolster [Wellbaum or ignition tunnel] was made, threaded to hold a nipple, and threaded to screw into the hole for the System Augustin Kern [tube primer holder] in the barrel of the weapon. Once in place, the new bolster was soldered or brazed to the barrel. The face of the System Augustin hammer was opened up to fit the nipple on the new percussion bolster. In terms of the geometry of the lock, this was probably the best of the System Augustin to percussion conversions. Muster 1851 rifled and smoothbore cavalry carbines, Muster 1844 Extra Corps carbines, Muster 1846 Sanitary Corps carbines, Muster 1851 pistols, and some Muster 1842 muskets were converted using this system. A variety of bolster and hammer shapes were used. As System Lorenz arms became more common in the k.k. Army the conversion bolsters and hammers grew to more closely resemble System Lorenz bolsters and hammers. Among the k.k. Army weapons imported to America during the Civil War, this conversion is seen predominantly on Muster 1851 Kammercarbiner [cavalry rifle carbines]. I have one in my collection. However, the Springfield Armory Museum collection includes examples of this percussion conversion technique used on other models of arms.

Regards,
Don Dixon
 

Don Dixon

Sergeant
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Location
Fairfax, VA, USA
@Don DixonSecond Italian War of Independence

the rifle for this volunteer soldiers:
Swiss federal rifle 1851 caliber 10.5mm

The Swiss Federal rifle was an excellent choice on Garibaldi's part. Following First Lieutenant Cadmus M. Wilcox's European tour in 1858 he wrote in Rifles and Rifle Practice that no other military arms in the world gave the accuracy of Swiss and Austrian weapons. The best he could say for the Model 1855 Springfield rifle musket was that “Nevertheless, in material, manufacture, and appearance, the United States arms are inferior to none.” He said nothing about the accuracy of the Springfield.

Regards,
Don Dixon
 
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