John Quincy Adams ... Predicted Dissolution... Over Slavery...

5fish

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John Quincy Adams our 6th President of our United States predicted the dissolution of our nation and Civil War. He was a harden Abolitionist before they became vogue in history. He, unlike Lincoln, consider slavery an abomination. He gets no applause for his moral stance against slavery or his prophecy of civil war. He was ahead of his time...

Adams argued that slavery was immoral, a violation of the principles on which the nation was founded, namely, that all men are created equal. His opposition to slavery also made him an opponent of the annexation of Texas and the Mexican-American War. He argued that both could eventually lead to the division of the nation and Civil War. After winning reelection to Congress on one occasion he said that he would endeavor to “bring about a day prophesied when slavery and war shall be banished from the face of the earth.” Time and again he condemned “false and heartless doctrine which makes the first and holiest rights of humanity to depend upon the color of the skin.” Historians have argued that not only did Adams predict the coming of the Civil War, but his ardent arguments in favor of abolition helped bring it about.

...

Early in the 19th century, John Quincy Adams, our sixth president, had become convinced that slavery would destroy the Union. Slavery would be ended, he came to believe, only through a civil war. The emancipation schemes his contemporaries proposed, including voluntary immigration of free blacks and emancipated slaves to a nation of their own, seemed to him impractical and unjust. He refused to support the American Colonization Society. Lincoln, who also abhorred slavery as a moral crime, put all his hopes in the Colonization Society. Adams thought it absurd to suppose that free blacks would immigrate voluntarily to Africa or those slave owners would ever cooperate in emancipation. Convinced that slavery would not be the rock against which the nation split, Lincoln believed the South would not succumb to the folly of secession. Adams knew the Southern mind better, having observed its uncompromising, quasi-violent character day after day in Congress from 1833 to 1848. By temperament and willful self-delusion, Lincoln hoped (until the reality was forced upon him) that good sense and the “better angels of our nature” would prevail. Over time, slavery would be eliminated peacefully. Adams never believed that possible. There were no “better angels.”


... John Quincy Adams and Lincoln shared views excep0t one...

Adams worked mostly from the outside, by personality outspoken and a radical; Lincoln from inside, a consensus politician who met his destiny when conciliation was no longer possible. On matters of policy (a national bank, paper money, trade, education, infrastructure, manufacturing, and the proper balance between federal and state power), they were, with the exception of how to deal with slavery, entirely in agreement.

...
Lincoln was not Adams equal on slavery...

For John Quincy Adams, all this would have seemed a recognition of the inevitable. For abolitionists such as Wendell Phillips, William Lloyd Garrison, Frederick Douglass, and H. Ford Douglas, Lincoln’s journey toward the place they had long occupied seemed painfully slow.

... He was right on Oregon and knew the truth behind the Mexican American war a land grab ...wiki

Adams opposed the annexation of Texas, viewing as unconstitutional the imposition of U.S. citizenship on foreign nationals when those nationals did not hold a referendum.[93] Adams once called for the impeachment of President John Tyler.[94] Adams called for the annexation of the entirety of Oregon Country, a disputed region occupied by both the United States and Britain, and was disappointed when President James K. Polk signed the Oregon Treaty, which divided the land between the two claimants at the 49th parallel.[95] Adams became a strong critic of the Mexican–American War, which he saw as a war of aggression against Mexico that was designed to take Mexican territory.[96] Although the war was popular at first, many Whigs eventually opposed it.[97]


...

Adams continued to speak against what he called the "Slave Power", that is the organized political power of the slave owners who dominated all the southern states and their representation in Congress.[104] He was also a fierce critic of northern Representatives and Senators, in particular Stephen A. Douglas, who he accused of catering to the slave faction in exchange for southern support.[5] He vehemently attacked the annexation of Texas and the Mexican–American War as part of a "conspiracy" to extend slavery.[105] He correctly predicted that the annexation of Texas and the Mexican–American War would contribute to civil war.[5]

...
As Lincoln believed in science... wiki

Adams realized that this might allow the United States to realize his dream of building a national institution of science and learning. Adams thus became Congress's primary supporter of the future Smithsonian Institution.[106]


Adams successfully persuaded Congress to preserve the money for an institution of science and learning.[5] Congress also debated whether the federal government had the authority to accept the gift, though with Adams leading the initiative, Congress decided to accept the legacy bequeathed to the nation and pledged the faith of the United States to the charitable trust on July 1, 1836.[108

All the links:::

http://sageamericanhistory.net/jacksonian/topics/jqadamspresidency.html

https://lithub.com/abraham-lincoln-breaking-down-the-myth-of-a-perfect-president/






 
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5fish

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A book back up...

Lincoln-and-the-Abolitionists-199x300.jpg


Amazon's review:::

“[Kaplan] tells this story with precision and eloquence.” —Seattle Times

“An eye-opening biography from a trusted source on the topic.” —Kirkus Review

“Elegantly written and thoroughly researched.” —Publishers Weekly



The acclaimed biographer, with a thought-provoking exploration of how Abraham Lincoln’s and John Quincy Adams’ experiences with slavery and race shaped their differing viewpoints, provides both perceptive insights into these two great presidents and a revealing perspective on race relations in modern America.

Lincoln, who in afterlife became mythologized as the Great Emancipator, was shaped by the values of the white America into which he was born. While he viewed slavery as a moral crime abhorrent to American principles, he disapproved of anti-slavery activists. Until the last year of his life, he advocated "voluntary deportation," concerned that free blacks in a white society would result in centuries of conflict. In 1861, he had reluctantly taken the nation to war to save it. While this devastating struggle would preserve the Union, it would also abolish slavery—creating the biracial democracy Lincoln feared. John Quincy Adams, forty years earlier, was convinced that only a civil war would end slavery and preserve the Union. An antislavery activist, he had concluded that a multiracial America was inevitable.

Lincoln and the Abolitionists, a frank look at Lincoln, "warts and all," provides an in-depth look at how these two presidents came to see the issues of slavery and race, and how that understanding shaped their perspectives. In a far-reaching historical narrative, Fred Kaplan offers a nuanced appreciation of both these great men and the events that have characterized race relations in America for more than a century—a legacy that continues to haunt us all.

The book has a colorful supporting cast from the relatively obscure Dorcas Allen, Moses Parsons, Violet Parsons, Theophilus Parsons, Phoebe Adams, John King, Charles Fenton Mercer, Phillip Doddridge, David Walker, Usher F. Linder, and H. Ford Douglas to Elijah Lovejoy, Francis Scott Key, William Channing, Wendell Phillips, and Rufus King. The cast includes Hannibal Hamlin, Lincoln’s first vice president, and James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson, the two presidents on either side of Lincoln. And it includes Abigail Adams, John Adams, Henry Clay, Stephen A. Douglas, and Frederick Douglass, who hold honored places in the American historical memory.

The subject of this book is slavery and racism, the paradox of Lincoln, our greatest president, as an antislavery moralist who believed in an exclusively white America; and Adams, our most brilliant statesman, as an antislavery activist who had no doubt that the United States would become a multiracial nation. It is as much about the present as the past.

 
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John Hartwell

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My recommendation:
61oY6tx4IIL._SX321_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

In the 1830s slavery was so deeply entrenched that it could not even be discussed in Congress, which had enacted a "Gag Rule" to ensure that all anti-slavery petitions would be immediately tabled without a hearing. The pro-slavery southern Democrats and their doughface northern lackeys had managed, not to abridge the people's constitutional right to petition, but to side-step it, by assuring that said petitions would not be read. This stirring book chronicles the parliamentary battle to bring "the peculiar institution" into the national debate, a battle that some historians have called "the Pearl Harbor of the slavery controversy." The campaign to make slavery officially and respectably debatable was waged by John Quincy Adams, the only former president to return to Congress following his term in office, who spent nine years defying gags, accusations of treason, and assassination threats. In the end he made his case through a combination of cunning and sheer endurance. Telling this story with a brilliant command of detail, Arguing About Slavery endows history with majestic sweep, heroism, and moral weight.
 
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John Hartwell

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I must, however, disagree with some things in the OP.

Like Adams, Lincoln did, from the start, "consider slavery an abomination," but differed in how to effectively oppose it. Lincoln went strictly by the rules, the law, as it stood. Adams did not hesitate to use, to manipulate the rules for a great moral purpose.

Lincoln also did not believe in "an exclusively white America." He did for a time question whether a multi-racial society was possible. But, later became convinced of it.
 

5fish

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Lincoln also did not believe in "an exclusively white America."
He worked hard throughout is president to find a place for freed slaves to colonize... He did not think the two races could live together...

Like Adams, Lincoln did, from the start, "consider slavery an abomination,"
I really thought slavery was a black stain on what America stood for...

But, later became convinced of it.
The 13th amendment forced his hand...
 
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5fish

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He was always worried about civil war...

Adams also used his influence to advocate his ideal of a federal “internal improvement” system. In this system, tariffs would be set to protect American goods in the domestic marketplace, and revenue from frontier land sales would serve to create a federal-funded, national network of transportation and communication. Adams believed this system would tie the various agricultural, industrial, and commercial economies of the nation’s different geographical regions together, uniting them in prosperity and halting the pattern of sectionalism and slippage toward civil war.

... South was their own worst enemy ...

When anti-slavery newspapers and pamphlets reached the South late that year, worried and offended southern activists responded by illegally intercepting and destroying the tracts. Tempers and passions raged on both sides, cyclically fueling one another. However, due to the illicit actions employed in blocking the spread of abolitionist literature, the nature of the slavery debate had changed. It was no longer just a moral battle waged by militant abolitionists against defensive slaveholders. Coupled with the curtailment of free speech, it became a legal issue as well. For this reason, the debate on slavery was enlarged to accommodate a new host of voices, concerns and ideas.

...

https://uschs.org/explore/historical-articles/john-quincy-adams-congressional-career/
 

matthew mckeon

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My recommendation:
61oY6tx4IIL._SX321_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

In the 1830s slavery was so deeply entrenched that it could not even be discussed in Congress, which had enacted a "Gag Rule" to ensure that all anti-slavery petitions would be immediately tabled without a hearing. The pro-slavery southern Democrats and their doughface northern lackeys had managed, not to abridge the people's constitutional right to petition, but to side-step it, by assuring that said petitions would not be read. This stirring book chronicles the parliamentary battle to bring "the peculiar institution" into the national debate, a battle that some historians have called "the Pearl Harbor of the slavery controversy." The campaign to make slavery officially and respectably debatable was waged by John Quincy Adams, the only former president to return to Congress following his term in office, who spent nine years defying gags, accusations of treason, and assassination threats. In the end he made his case through a combination of cunning and sheer endurance. Telling this story with a brilliant command of detail, Arguing About Slavery endows history with majestic sweep, heroism, and moral weight.
I've read it, its very good.
 

John Hartwell

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He worked hard throughout is president to find a place for freed slaves to colonize... He did not think the two races could live together...
He feared white opposition would make it impossible. ... It almost did.
But, that's not what he wanted, and he changed his ideas.

I really thought slavery was a black on what America stood for...
Absolutely. So did Lincoln.

The 13th amendment forced his hand...
The 13th Amendment was created at his insistence, and had his full support, first to last. It didn't force anything on him.
 

5fish

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here a link to a book the last paragraph talks about Adams and dissolution...

https://books.google.com/books?id=58VI8hm-vJoC&pg=PA144&dq=John+Quincy+Adams+predicts+civil+war&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwic7YOnj7ndAhUk1oMKHQtzCT0Q6AEIPzAE#v=onepage&q=John Quincy Adams predicts civil war&f=false

The 13th Amendment was created at his insistence, and had his full support, first to last. It didn't force anything on him.
He did but...

The process of constitutional reform in 1864-65 also permitted Americans to see the Constitution as something that could be revised. Lincoln accepted this position gradually, recognizing that Article V allowed the people to express their will tempered through the representative process. Future generations would more easily amend the Constitution.
 

John Hartwell

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He did but...

The process of constitutional reform in 1864-65 also permitted Americans to see the Constitution as something that could be revised. Lincoln accepted this position gradually, recognizing that Article V allowed the people to express their will tempered through the representative process. Future generations would more easily amend the Constitution.
No argument there. Once he was convinced the process would stand the Constitutionality test, he welcomed it, and made good use of it. My only problem is with the suggestion that he did so unwillingly, or that his hand was, in any way, "forced." He just wasn't ready to take some dubious, risky step that might be reversed by SCOTUS sometime in the future.

What a tragedy it would have been had he, for instance, abolished slavery by fiat (as many Radicals wanted to do), only to have it rescinded by the Court after the war. Re-enslave the Freedmen? Unthinkable ... but a sure-fire Constitutional Crisis would result.

Frederick Douglass himself gives, in my opinion, the last word on Lincoln and emancipation:

"Viewed from the genuine abolition ground, Mr. Lincoln seemed tardy, cold, dull, and indifferent; but measuring him by the sentiment of his country, a sentiment he was bound as a statesman to consult, he was swift, zealous, radical, and determined…

"Taking him for all in all, measuring the tremendous magnitude of the work before him, considering the necessary means to ends, and surveying the end from the beginning, infinite wisdom has seldom sent any man into the world better fitted for his mission than Abraham Lincoln."
 
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uaskme

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JQA didn’t have any problem with building the Yankee Economy on Slavery, Cuban Slavery for Instance.

If the Founders had of ended Slavery the Negros would of been Removed. One of those Revolutionary Principles.
 

5fish

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JQA was a great Abolitionist but is not recognized as one... too early in the movements raise...?

GAG rule:

A debate erupted in the House over the constitutional right to petition. After a week of heated discussion and flying accusations, a committee was formed for the purpose of devising a compromise. Several months later, the committee presented three resolutions: 1) That Congress was not constitutionally authorized to legislate against slavery in southern states. 2) That Congress “ought not” legislate against slavery in the District of Columbia. 3) That any petition even remotely related to the topic of slavery be automatically banned from mention or discussion in the House.

The resolutions were passed in a gesture of compromise and pacification to mitigate southern tension over the question of slavery’s abolishment. But John Quincy Adams saw no room for compromise on this matter. He viewed the first two resolutions as misguided and flawed deductions of constitutional law; the third, which eventually came to be known as the gag rule, an outright infraction of the Bill of Right’s guarantee of the right to petition. Coerced by conscience and undaunted by opposition, Adams began a personal crusade against the resolutions, using every opportunity to attack them and challenge their legality. Employing years of well-honed experience in parliamentary procedure, Adams masterfully manipulated House proceedings in order to gain opportunities to denounce the gag rule. Because the resolutions were not standing House rules and had to be renewed each session, he often found ways to read anti-slavery petitions before the resolutions could be reinstated. His audacious behavior earned him many enemies. In 1837, Adams began receiving death threats, and by 1839 he was receiving roughly twelve per month.


Three years later, in December of 1844, John Quincy Adams enjoyed another victory, perhaps his greatest. As Congress convened, Adams, as was his custom, moved for the repeal of the gag rule. Only this time, he finally had the support he needed in the House. After nine years of both advancing and enduring relentless reproach, Adams finally witnessed the end of the gag rule. For him, it signaled a triumph, like that of the Amistad decision, equally real and symbolic. “Blessed, forever blessed be the name of God!” wrote the weary Congressman in his diary.

It was, however, on that most delicate, that most controversial issue of the time, slavery, that John Quincy Adams sounded his voice most frequently and most passionately. Adams first became involved in the slavery debate in 1835, when the New York-based Anti-Slavery Society began a sweeping campaign to flood the nation with abolitionist literature.

The United States should uphold John Quincy Adams’s legacy by ensuring that slavery is eradicated in in this country and abroad. Adams said he must “bring about a day prophesized when slavery and war shall be banished from the face of the earth.”

John Quincy Adams became known for his passionate anti-slavery advocacy in Congress. It was his 18-year effort that did away with the “gag rule,” which automatically nullified anti-slavery legislation. Amid his campaigns to end slavery, he also petitioned Congress to provide land for displaced Native Americans.
 
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WJC

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The battlecry of bad politicians.
Thanks for your response.
What makes a "bad politician"? One who gets nothing done, one that gets most of what he/she wants done or one who gets everything, no matter how devastating it is to the people's interests? In a republic like ours, compromise is essential.
To paraphrase Churchill's November 11, 1947 speech in Commons, ours "is the worst form of government, except for all the others."
 


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