John Brown's Raid on Harpers Ferry

wilber6150

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#41
I think u r as accurate as expected for this forum. I would imagine he already had a wrrant on him for his misdeeds in the Western Territories - for multiple murders.

Also, this man is considered a man of noble charactor. He got several of his sons killed fighting for HIS cause. I dont know, I dont think I would have kept running headlong if my actions resulted in the death of 1 or more of my sons.
His cause? Actually his sons and other free soilers were already having troubles with pro-slavery forces while he was still living in New York..
 

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#43
He was a murderer even a terrorist by some defintions who was fighting other murderers in a brutal undeclared civil war...
Perhaps so, but Hayward Shepherd was not a murderer, he was a free black who's only crime was confronting them if IIRC...........They shot him dead...................As I stated Brown's cause was righteous, his application was not.

Respectfully,

William
 

wilber6150

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#45
Perhaps so, but Hayward Shepherd was not a murderer, he was a free black who's only crime was confronting them if IIRC...........They shot him dead...................As I stated Brown's cause was righteous, his application was not.

Respectfully,

William
I was talking about Kansas in my previous post in regards to murderers, but in regards to Shepherd he was a innocent man who unforunataly got caught up in the violence when he came upon them and refused to halt when ordered to..
 
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#46
I was talking about Kansas in my previous post in regards to murderers, but in regards to Shepherd he was a innocent man who unforunataly got caught up in the violence when he came upon them and refused to halt when ordered to..
Brown was committing a crime, Shepherd was not. So you blame Shepherd's death on him and not on brown ? Yes he failed to halt when told to, but let's remember Brown had no intention of hurting anyone..........Something that once his illegal plan was launched he had no control over. Brown knew people would get hurt and he knew that if his plan went as planned, a lot of people would be hurt and/or killed.

I will state again Brown's cause was righteous, his application was not and that is why he was hung. I wish Brown could have focused his passion for a righteous cause in a better applied manner. His plan was doomed from the beginning.

As to Kansas you are correct.........It was a brutal undeclared war.

Respects to all,

William
 

wilber6150

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#47
Brown was committing a crime, Shepherd was not. So you blame Shepherd's death on him and not on brown ? Yes he failed to halt when told to, but let's remember Brown had no intention of hurting anyone..........Something that once his illegal plan was launched he had no control over. Brown knew people would get hurt and he knew that if his plan went as planned, a lot of people would be hurt and/or killed.

I will state again Brown's cause was righteous, his application was not and that is why he was hung. I wish Brown could have focused his passion for a righteous cause in a better applied manner. His plan was doomed from the beginning.

As to Kansas you are correct.........It was a brutal undeclared war.

Respects to all,

William
Did I not say he was an innocent man? But truth be told he would not have been killed had he halted when ordered, but does this wipe away any of the guilt from the men who did this? No it doesn't...Now an intersting question might be would he have still run had he known that this was an attempt to free slaves and not just a group of armed men that he ran across in the darkness?
 
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#50
Did I not say he was an innocent man? But truth be told he would not have been killed had he halted when ordered, but does this wipe away any of the guilt from the men who did this? No it doesn't...Now an intersting question might be would he have still run had he known that this was an attempt to free slaves and not just a group of armed men that he ran across in the darkness?

Yes that is an interesting question, would have Shephard join them if he knew what the plan was..............Did Frederick Douglass join ?....and he knew what the plan was..........I say Shephard would not have, but who knows.

Respectfully,

William
 

brass napoleon

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#52
Yes that is an interesting question, would have Shephard join them if he knew what the plan was..............Did Frederick Douglass join ?....and he knew what the plan was..........I say Shephard would not have, but who knows.

Respectfully,

William
Considering that out of the thousands of people Brown approached, directly or indirectly, to join him in his endeavor, he got only twenty recruits, I would say the odds of Shephard joining him were extremely slim. However, by the same token, I'd say the odds were extremely slim that any black man in his right mind would go before Virginia authorities to turn him in.
 

wilber6150

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#53
Considering that out of the thousands of people Brown approached, directly or indirectly, to join him in his endeavor, he got only twenty recruits, I would say the odds of Shephard joining him were extremely slim. However, by the same token, I'd say the odds were extremely slim that any black man in his right mind would go before Virginia authorities to turn him in.
Brown approached thousands of people and told them of his endevour? Source? And not sounding an alarm and telling authorities is not the same as joining is the point I was trying to make with my posed question...As Shepherd was killed while running away possibly to alert authorities.
Browns original plan did have a lot of support including Douglass, it was only when he changed it to attacking the arsenal did he lose a lot of backers, and neither plan called for a large force to enter Virginia originally. So to gauge support of the plan by the numbers in the original force is a bit misleading...
 
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brass napoleon

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#54
Brown approached thousands of people and told them of his endevour? Source?
It's well known that Brown traveled to Canada and spread the word through the black communities there to hold a convention where he would reveal his plans. He only got a few dozen people to even show up, and I don't believe any of them accompanied him to Harpers Ferry. He, and his agents, also traveled to black communities and abolitionist strongholds throughout the United States to drum up support. His son, John Brown, Jr., and his lieutenant, John H. Kagi, made several trips to northeast Ohio, including the abolitionist stronghold where hundreds of men had participated in the Oberlin-Wellington Rescue, but were only able to get 2 recruits there.

Browns original plan did have a lot of support including Douglass, it was only when he changed it to attacking the arsenal did he lose a lot of backers, and neither plan called for a large force to enter Virginia originally.
Brown's original plan made a lot more sense than the plan he ultimately executed. But even then, exactly who was the "lot of support" for it?
 
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#55
Speaking of Hayward Shepherd I am not sure but I believe he is buried in Winchester. I don't think his grave is marked as such but the cemetery is there. There is a youtube video called "Vanished Winchester' that has a picture of the house that belonged to the judge who presided over John Brown trial. It has since been torn down (along with a lot of other interesting buildings in Winchester but that's a rant for another thread).
 

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#56
Thank you for revealing your bias to all of us, and your lack of any kind of evidence other than modern political paranoia to support your views. Whether you are kicked off the board or not is for others to decide, but if you want to convince anybody here of your viewpoints, you will have to present evidence, and not just say "I'm right because the left sucks." :rolleyes:

This isn't even a right/left issue. But it would appear that anybody who disagrees with any of your unsupported proclamations is a leftist in your eyes. :nah disagree:
At least I can admit what you call a bias. I call it centerism, objectivity and rationality. I man attacked a federal armory, took it over, killed innocent people, at HF and the Territories, but he aonly got a 3.5 day trial in the mid 1800s. Perhaps you should look at your own bias. So you would have felt the same way about, Timothy Mcvey? He had a cause. Was he a nice guy or rushed to judgement and excucted quickly?
 

wilber6150

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#57
It's well known that Brown traveled to Canada and spread the word through the black communities there to hold a convention where he would reveal his plans. He only got a few dozen people to even show up, and I don't believe any of them accompanied him to Harpers Ferry. He, and his agents, also traveled to black communities and abolitionist strongholds throughout the United States to drum up support. His son, John Brown, Jr., and his lieutenant, John H. Kagi, made several trips to northeast Ohio, including the abolitionist stronghold where hundreds of men had participated in the Oberlin-Wellington Rescue, but were only able to get 2 recruits there.



Brown's original plan made a lot more sense than the plan he ultimately executed. But even then, exactly who was the "lot of support" for it?
Brown wasn't looking for a lot of men to accompany him or to create an army, he was mostly for drumming up financial support, and that he received thru out his travels.. People certainly thought that by backing him financially they were also taking a risk that doesn't show support?
 

Specster

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#58
His cause? Actually his sons and other free soilers were already having troubles with pro-slavery forces while he was still living in New York..
If he was having trouble in the north, in new york. He lived then in a community of freed slaves.

If JB cause wasnt abolition? whos was?
 

Specster

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#59
I was talking about Kansas in my previous post in regards to murderers, but in regards to Shepherd he was a innocent man who unforunataly got caught up in the violence when he came upon them and refused to halt when ordered to..
So a gang of terrorist "orders" you to stop (by what authority?) and u dont its your tuff luck that day and your fault?
 
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wilber6150

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#60
So a gang of terrorist "orders" you to stop (by what authority?) and u dont its your tuff luck that day and his fault?
Did they kill anyone else that they captured when they could? If he wouldn't have ran he wouldn't have been killed, does that clear anyone else of his murder no it doesn't..He was murdered by men with Brown and the victims actions do not wash any of the blood on their hands, but lets also know that Browns men weren't there just randomly killing people they run across..
 
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