'Joe Brown' and other pikes made in Southern states never got off the ground as a weapon.


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Patrick H

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#3
It's amazing to me that anyone even considered them a viable weapon in the 1860s. Weren't they originally used by foot soldiers with shields and body armor against the war horses of their opponents?
 

redbob

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#4
Keep in mind that the Japanese made thousands of bamboo pikes to issue to their citizens in case of allied invasion at the end of WWII. These would have been even more worthless than the Confederate ones.
 

TnFed

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#5
It's amazing to me that anyone even considered them a viable weapon in the 1860s. Weren't they originally used by foot soldiers with shields and body armor against the war horses of their opponents?
Patrick, my grandfather told me that when he was in the marines, that Hatians were hopeless with rifles but deadly with machetes and knives at in-fighting. I guess, you have to use what ya got.
 
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#6
Patrick, my grandfather told me that when he was in the marines, that Hatians were hopeless with rifles but deadly with machetes and knives at in-fighting. I guess, you have to use what ya got.
I used to have to see the police training video " Surviving edged weapons" by Caliber Press circa mid 1980s. At 21 feet or less an individual skilled in fighting with edged weapons can defeat an opponent with a fire arm.
Leftyhunter
 
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#7
Wrought in fear and just a little desperation, 'Joe Brown' and other pikes made in Southern states during Civil War never got off the ground as a weapon. https://civil-war-picket.blogspot.com/2018/12/wrought-in-fear-and-just-little.html
If we have a combat scenario where a group of slaves utilizing thick cover can get say within 30 yards of their opponents and outnumber their single shot muzzleloading opponents then the slaves armed with Pikes could very well win the battle.
Leftyhunter
 
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#8
Wrought in fear and just a little desperation, 'Joe Brown' and other pikes made in Southern states during Civil War never got off the ground as a weapon. https://civil-war-picket.blogspot.com/2018/12/wrought-in-fear-and-just-little.html
Several decades after the ACW , Zulu Tribesmen armed with traditional weapons did defeat British Army regulars armed with the then modern Martini-Henrey Rifle.
So utilizing edged weapons is not that far fetched an idea in the mud nineteenth century.
Leftyhunter
 

Patrick H

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#10
The original post, and some of the responses, are all well and good. However, the pike itself was not a "modern" edged weapon of the era. Had it been a truly viable weapon, we would have seen every unit equipped with it. We didn't see that.
 

TnFed

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#11
If we have a combat scenario where a group of slaves utilizing thick cover can get say within 30 yards of their opponents and outnumber their single shot muzzleloading opponents then the slaves armed with Pikes could very well win the battle.
Leftyhunter
Lefty, you're right. I have always wondered why there were not large scale uprising while the war was on. During the Haitian Caco conflict, 41 United States Marines whipped 400 Cacos at the battle of Fort Dipitie. 75 cacos dead, 0 marines. That said, my grandfather told me that out in the Bush, especially at night, things were not nearly so one-sided.
 
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#12
The pikes were a bit outdated for a Civil War battlefield in the opinions of many experts but
the Union had a regiment that used lances for a short period of time during the war. Rush's
Lancers (the 6th Pennsylvania Cavalry) were issued nine foot lances at the beginning of the
war and used them until they were issued Sharps carbines in 1863. Rush's Lancers served
in guard duty behind the lines for a good part of the Civil War so the lances these cavalrymen
carried didn't get much use in combat.

I'll be the first to admit, seeing a line of men with lances or pikes coming towards me with
evil intent would be terrifying to some extent. Even though the pike or lance would not
be practical against massed rifles and artillery, as a psychological weapon I think it could
have been of some use. For example, if I was on the defensive and I had no ammunition
left, I would probably run for the hills if I saw a line of men carrying ten foot poles with blades
coming at me.
 

TomV71

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#13
The only instance of Lancers used in the CW on the Confederate side was the famous charge at the battle of Valverde.

Heros von Borcke mentions two instances of encountering Union Lancers in his memoir.
One is on June 27 at the Battle of Gaines mill. A union regiment of 700 lancers. They routed after being attacked by Virginia cavalry with most of their lancers left behind on the field. The other is during the Gettysburg campaign when a scouting party of 150 Lancers near Hagerstown and that they (Stuarts Cavalry) later intercepting a party dispatchers of Rush' Regiment of Lancers.
 
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#14
Samuel Griswold (of Georgia) originally converted his cotton gin factory to produce pikes at the behest of the Governor of Georgia. He produced several hundred pikes before converting his factory once again to manufacture a .36 brass-framed copy of the Colt, and produced over 3600 copies as the Griswold and Gunnison.

Grizwold-Pike.jpg


Grizwold-Pike-1.jpg


Jim
 
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#15
Lefty, you're right. I have always wondered why there were not large scale uprising while the war was on. During the Haitian Caco conflict, 41 United States Marines whipped 400 Cacos at the battle of Fort Dipitie. 75 cacos dead, 0 marines. That said, my grandfather told me that out in the Bush, especially at night, things were not nearly so one-sided.
There were a few large scale slave Rebellions such has the one by Nat Turner. For the most part though the slaves lived in plantations where communication with other slaves in nearby properties was highly restricted by slave patrols. Also there were quite a few informants among the slaves. The slaves had very little access to firearms.
Leftyhunter
 

gary

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#16
About 400 pikes were used by the Confederates at Battery Wagner on Morris Island. They were planted in the scarp as abatis.
 
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#19
Yes... Here's a link.
They {2 or 3metal detecting buddies} found a burned train.. including drive wheels, cow catcher,wheels galore and a cache of pikes {2 cars full if I remember correctly} that had been stored in Columbia and were being evacuated as Sherman advanced. One of them, the late Corky Huey, had some of this stuff in his yard as late as 2016, and a pile of rusty pike heads.

http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=93315
 

Carronade

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#20
Pikemen were usually employed in combination with archers, crossbowmen, or musketeers. In the 1600s the development of the bayonet made it unnecessary to have separate units with polearms and firearms.
 



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