January 7th Video Discussion: Depictions of Violence at Antietam

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luinrina

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How does the chat room work by the way? Whenever I visited it to check it out, it's just telling me I haven't joined any rooms. I can't click anything or even write. I checked out the help but from what I can see the commands are for the chat itself, not how to join a group or even start one. :help:
 

ami

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How does the chat room work by the way? Whenever I visited it to check it out, it's just telling me I haven't joined any rooms. I can't click anything or even write. I checked out the help but from what I can see the commands are for the chat itself, not how to join a group or even start one. :help:
Do you see the ace Ventura gif mike posted? Scroll down you should see a box that says “type a public message” enter your text there
 
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CivilWarTalk

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How does the chat room work by the way? Whenever I visited it to check it out, it's just telling me I haven't joined any rooms. I can't click anything or even write. I checked out the help but from what I can see the commands are for the chat itself, not how to join a group or even start one. :help:
I made a tweak to the permissions, we just installed this, it’s not fully tested, may work better now.
 
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CivilWarTalk

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Apr 1, 1999
Location
Martinsburg, WV
  • Pat Young:
    Hello
    Monday at 9:01 PM
  • Dom71:
    HI
    Monday at 9:01 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    hi dpm
    Monday at 9:01 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    dom
    Monday at 9:01 PM
  • Dom71:
    Hi JB!
    Monday at 9:02 PM
  • MaryDee:
    I'm back with dinner in hand. Hi, JB, Pat, Dom! Hope you all had great holidays!
    Monday at 9:02 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    Happy New Year everyone!!!
    Monday at 9:02 PM
  • Pat Young:
    Quite the week for me
    Monday at 9:03 PM
  • Pat Young:
    I met my brother for the first time
    Monday at 9:03 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    Wow! awesome!
    Monday at 9:03 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Great!
    Monday at 9:04 PM
  • Pat Young:
    It was
    Monday at 9:04 PM
  • Dom71:
    That'great Pat!
    Monday at 9:05 PM
  • Pat Young:
    Thanks
    Monday at 9:05 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    Let's get started. I love Pete Carmichael's style!
    Monday at 9:05 PM
  • Pat Young:
    how so
    Monday at 9:06 PM
  • Pat Young:
    He seemed a little lost in his powerpoint slides
    Monday at 9:06 PM
  • MaryDee:
    I do, too. I'm especially interested in his topic, being more interested in ordinary soldiers (or their families) than generals.
    Monday at 9:07 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    energetic, honest, passionate
    Monday at 9:07 PM
  • MaryDee:
    I agree that he got a bit lost with his powerpoint!
    Monday at 9:08 PM
  • Dom71:
    yeah he brings a little pep to the presentation rather than droning on'
    Monday at 9:08 PM
  • Pat Young:
    good points
    Monday at 9:08 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    who hasn't been lost in their or had technology problems in class
    Monday at 9:08 PM
  • Pat Young:
    ok, you got me there
    Monday at 9:08 PM
  • MaryDee:
    He just needed to have done another rehearsal; probably he didn't have time!
    Monday at 9:09 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    his problems happened on camera. lol.
    Monday at 9:09 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    Is he trying to say that northerners did not want to see the gore on the battlefield despite the tech to do so, so they still viewed sanitized versions of it?
    Monday at 9:10 PM
  • Pat Young:
    I think that there were a couple of points that he made on that.
    Monday at 9:11 PM
  • Pat Young:
    I had always heard that the exhibition had brought the battlefield to NYC. He sharply disagreed
    Monday at 9:12 PM
  • MaryDee:
    More likely that the news media thought they ought to sanitize it. Also that there wasn't that much tech; in order to reproduce the photos in print media, they had to copy them as woodcuts.
    Monday at 9:12 PM
  • Dom71:
    I was wondering for myself if the detachment would be caused by the distance of the war. Not being fought largely on Northern territory
    Monday at 9:12 PM
  • Pat Young:
    Even more, he made the point that most Americans never saw the photos, they saw the engravings based on a cleaned up sanitized version
    Monday at 9:12 PM
  • MaryDee:
    It's too bad that the NYT reporter that wrote the scathing review of the exhibition didn't interview the spectators.
    Monday at 9:13 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    still trying to keep people in the colonial/revolutionary era where heroes died surrounded by friends during a "time out" in the battle with one hand on their forehead and the other on their torso.
    Monday at 9:14 PM
  • Dom71:
    That certainly would have gone some ways in proving or disproving his point
    Monday at 9:14 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    reality hurts enlistment and fundraising numbers
    Monday at 9:15 PM
  • MaryDee:
    I am reading Drew Gilpin Faust's "This Republic of Suffering" which is all about families of soldiers trying to reconcile the concept of a "good death" (uttering significant last words in one's own bed surrounded by family) with the actual carnage on the battlefield.
    Monday at 9:16 PM
  • Pat Young:
    If you read articles from that time, many oof them never quote anyone. They tell your the sense of the crowd, but they don't bother to quote anyone.
    Monday at 9:16 PM
  • Dom71:
    Also their had never been a war of this magnitude before, this destructive maybe hard for folks to wrap their heads around
    Monday at 9:17 PM
  • MaryDee:
    So this video is quite closely related to the book I'm reading.
    Monday at 9:17 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    very true Dom
    Monday at 9:17 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    Previous wars saw grewsome casualties but not this many
    Monday at 9:18 PM
  • MaryDee:
    That's one of the first things Faust points out in her book!
    Monday at 9:19 PM
  • MaryDee:
    The scale of fatalities was horrendously magnified by many times over previous wars
    Monday at 9:20 PM
  • Dom71:
    even the numbers of men marching off to war was staggering compared to the previous conflicts
    Monday at 9:20 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    Morale is going to seriously dip with those pictures floating for all tosee
    Monday at 9:20 PM
  • Dom71:
    not armies in the thousands but tens of thousands
    Monday at 9:20 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Hundreds of thousands in some cases!
    Monday at 9:21 PM
  • Dom71:
    it must have been overwhelming in all facets of life from the front to the home front
    Monday at 9:22 PM
  • MaryDee:
    It was interesting that only dead Confederates were photographed. I read somewhere that the US military forbid photos of Union dead.
    Monday at 9:22 PM

  • Dom71:
    they still do that
    Monday at 9:22 PM
  • Pat Young:
    We still rarely see the faces of dead US soldiers in the media
    Monday at 9:22 PM
  • Dom71:
    their is a famous photo of American dead on Omaha beach. Which I believe wasn't shown till the war was over
    Monday at 9:23 PM
  • Pat Young:
    One point that Carmichael made reminded me that scenes of the war dead can serve as a kind of war ****
    Monday at 9:24 PM
  • Pat Young:
    I am not sure why we cant say [email protected]
    Monday at 9:24 PM
  • Dom71:
    lol
    Monday at 9:24 PM
  • Dom71:
    I'll bet you R.E. Lee would love to have plastered pictures of dead Union soldiers all over the North
    Monday at 9:25 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    some things don't need to be seen from a war
    Monday at 9:25 PM
  • MaryDee:
    It's the same problem with the three-letter word for donkey found in the Bible!
    Monday at 9:25 PM
  • MaryDee:
    I strongly suspect that nobody in the military wanted families to find out their sons were dead by seeing their photos!
    Monday at 9:26 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    but it does show that those chivalric death paintings were very very false
    Monday at 9:26 PM
  • Dom71:
    I would imagine most of them are
    Monday at 9:27 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Very true!
    Monday at 9:27 PM
  • civilwartalk:
    Hello, and ha, I think there is safe word list
    Monday at 9:28 PM
  • civilwartalk:
    everything working okay?
    Monday at 9:28 PM
  • Pat Young:
    My dad served in the Phillipines and said most of the guys he saw dying in battle were either cursing or calling for their mothers.
    Monday at 9:28 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    Working fine!!!
    +1
    Monday at 9:29 PM
  • Dom71:
    wasn't death it self a fascination with people of this time?
    Monday at 9:29 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    Hi Mike!!!
    Monday at 9:29 PM
  • MaryDee:
    So far, looks good! Now if @ami can come up with the transcript tomorrow, all will be perfect!
    +1
    Monday at 9:29 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Dom, that's what Faust's book on death and the CW is all about.
    Monday at 9:30 PM
  • civilwartalk:
    I see three pages of archives, so should be okay!
    Monday at 9:30 PM
  • Dom71:
    ah I see
    Monday at 9:30 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    Telling students that bodies were laid out in the house before funerals creeped them out
    Monday at 9:31 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    commonplace back then
    Monday at 9:32 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    death masks
    Monday at 9:33 PM
  • MaryDee:
    There was this expectation of everyone's wanting a "good death" in which the dying person is in his own home, his own bed, surrounded by family, friends and clergy, and uttering memorable last words. Trying to reconcile this with violent death on the battlefield was, to say the least, difficult. Condolence letters from commanding officers and comrades tried to state that the dead person died instantly, without suffering, and was at peace with the Lord and with his own death. Needless to say, this was difficult!
    +1
    Monday at 9:34 PM
  • MaryDee:
    In other words, a lot of fiction here to make the grieving family feel better.
    Monday at 9:34 PM
  • Dom71:
    Carmichael seemed to also be saying that soldiers didn't typically hold their experiences inside. They aired them out to family quite
    Monday at 9:35 PM
  • Dom71:
    frequently
    Monday at 9:35 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Which was a good thing.
    Monday at 9:35 PM
  • Dom71:
    interesting how that seemed to change in later wars
    Monday at 9:36 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    very much agreed mary
    Monday at 9:36 PM
  • Pat Young:
    No military censorship during the civil war
    Monday at 9:36 PM
  • Dom71:
    yes Mary to your point
    Monday at 9:36 PM
  • MaryDee:
    We had a thread on CWT recently about PTSD and did it exist in the CW. I would say it did, judging from the experience of the soldier Carmichael followed. But of course it didn't have a name and most tried to hide the symptoms.
    Monday at 9:37 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    that Carmichael read a letter that detailed death surprised me
    Monday at 9:37 PM
  • Dom71:
    very true Pat
    Monday at 9:37 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    I thought thing mary. the diagnosis didn't exist then but it certainly was ptsd.
    Monday at 9:38 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Note that it talked about a heroic death, though, and that the officer did his duty.
    Monday at 9:38 PM
  • MaryDee:
    If it's the one I'm thinking about.
    Monday at 9:39 PM
  • Dom71:
    did you ever hear George Carlin talk about PTSD having a different name for each war. Shell shock, battle fatigue, etc...
    Monday at 9:39 PM
  • MaryDee:
    No, but I'm well aware of that.
    Monday at 9:40 PM
  • Dom71:
    That started in WWI so I would think it wasn't a condition thought of in the Civil War
    Monday at 9:41 PM
  • MaryDee:
    That doesn't mean it didn't exist!
    Monday at 9:41 PM
  • Pat Young:
    Soldiers Heart
    Monday at 9:42 PM
  • Dom71:
    No I wasn't suggesting that I just figure their was an ignorance to it
    Monday at 9:42 PM
  • Pat Young:
    Did the Antietam exhibit increase or decrease enthusiasm for the war?
    Monday at 9:43 PM
  • MaryDee:
    And even well past WWII it was generally considered something shameful.
    Monday at 9:43 PM
 

CivilWarTalk

Lieutenant General
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Managing Member & Webmaster
Joined
Apr 1, 1999
Location
Martinsburg, WV
  • Dom71:
    Yes that's true Mary
    Monday at 9:44 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Pat, that's a good question to which I don't know the answer. Evidently it was successful enough that the photographers really went to town staging death scenes after Gettysburg!
    Monday at 9:45 PM
  • Dom71:
    nothing new there have the gaudiest pictures sell the most papers.
    Monday at 9:46 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Just got a message, "The server has not responded in time" so lost a comment, just as well!
    Monday at 9:46 PM
  • Dom71:
    what was the comment Mary
    Monday at 9:47 PM
  • MaryDee:
    My message was about the effect's being limited because of the limited audience.
    Monday at 9:47 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    but those pictures in those papers showed the realities of war
    Monday at 9:47 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Yes, but remember that most of the sketches based on the photos were sanitized.
    Monday at 9:48 PM
  • MaryDee:
    They couldn't publish the photos.
    Monday at 9:48 PM
  • Dom71:
    to a degree JB yes. But photo tech still young, no color or smell. Very one dimentional
    Monday at 9:48 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Color and smell would have been too much!!!
    Monday at 9:49 PM
  • Dom71:
    your weren't getting the entire sceneas Mary said a sanitized one
    Monday at 9:49 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    true but also more realistic than the paintings from previous wars
    Monday at 9:50 PM
  • Dom71:
    yes for sure
    Monday at 9:50 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Yes, especially since the paintings were romanticized and quite sanitary!
    Monday at 9:50 PM
  • Dom71:
    we come back to the fact that this war broke new ground for Americans in many ways
    Monday at 9:51 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Very true!
    Monday at 9:51 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    absolutely. we respectfully mock them a bit in class
    Monday at 9:51 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    agreed Dom
    Monday at 9:52 PM
  • Pat Young:
    I will just note that Carmichael described both Gardner and Waud as bringing new realism to depictions of battles. Both were immigrants
    Monday at 9:54 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    I say we call it a night.
    Monday at 9:54 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Pat, I think the perspective from new immigrants helped!
    Monday at 9:56 PM
  • Pat Young:
    Take care all
    Monday at 9:56 PM
  • MaryDee:
    Good night, all!
    Monday at 9:56 PM
  • Dom71:
    goodnight!'
    Monday at 9:56 PM
  • JerseyBart:
    thank you for joining me tonight. See you next time!!!
    Monday at 9:56 PM
 
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