Stuart J.E.B Stuart's Late Arrival At Gettysburg

Lee doesn't blame Stuart on the record and Lee is the only one who matters. Why is it that virtually all historians give Stuart such a hard time? Is it the comments Lee made on July 1 to other subordinates about being blind without Stuart? Is there some animus among the other generals against Stuart? Curiouser and curiouser.

Blaming Stuart deflects blame from Lee. It's similar to the idea of blaming Longstreet for what transpired. Historians have sometimes relied on Lee partisans in their writings and it has colored their narratives accordingly.

Ryan
 
@Eric Wittenberg 's Plenty of Blame to Go Around is not just an incredibly clever title, but a must read on this subject.

Why is it that virtually all historians give Stuart such a hard time?

There are two main questions about Stuart during the Gettysburg campaign:

1. We're his actions proper according his orders and available information?

2. Did his absence do more harm than good?

The latter can be true even if the former is also true, and Lee would only reprimand Stuart for the former (the latter is whether Lee made a mistake).

See also Sheridan at Yellow Tavern and Trevilian Station - his absence from the AOTP for those raids is now seen by many as a mistake, regardless of whether Grant ever saw it as one.
 
I don't remember reading of Lee ever reprimanding an officer publicly.

It's not the best leadership technique. It doesn't lead to long term loyalty or high morale.

We should also keep in mind that Lee was perfectly capable of executing a stronger hand over the cavalry brigades Stuart left with the ANV had he chosen to do so.

Reorganizing the cavalry while on the move in enemy territory would have been very risky, potentially disastrous. First, you have to assume that the remaining cavalry units were oversized for their assignments, and I don't think we can assume that. Scouting immediately ahead of infantry, guarding their flanks, and guarding the supply and ammunition wagons isn't the kind of glamorous assignment that's going to earn you a battlefield statue or a book, but it all has to be done. I assume considerable thought had been put into sizing these units. A detached cavalry recon unit has to be large enough to fight its way out of any situation it might encounter. Where would so many men come from, while adequately covering all the other necessary assignments? How would its command structure be set up? I can clearly see why this option did not appeal to Lee.
 
In a way this will be third time Stuart will ride aroubd the aop. The previous two times unabated by impdemetia, he made quicker time.
at Rockville a large train of wagons coming from Washington was intercepted and captured. Many of them were destroyed, but 125, with all the animals of the train, were secured. The ranks of the cavalry were much reduced by its long and arduous march, repeated conflicts, and insufficient supplies of food and forage
This isnt aimed at Cash, just where i got the quote from.
What sort of supplies did Stuart capture as stuart is reported by Lee as much reduced by lack of food and forage? Useless to stuart when he needs it, but needed by lee in retreat. the wagons for wounded?
 
In a way this will be third time Stuart will ride aroubd the aop. The previous two times unabated by impdemetia, he made quicker time.

This isnt aimed at Cash, just where i got the quote from.
What sort of supplies did Stuart capture as stuart is reported by Lee as much reduced by lack of food and forage? Useless to stuart when he needs it, but needed by lee in retreat. the wagons for wounded?

That quote is incorrect. Those wagons were filled with high grade fodder. That high grade fodder kept Stuart's horses alive.
 
What sort of supplies did Stuart capture as stuart is reported by Lee as much reduced by lack of food and forage? Useless to stuart when he needs it, but needed by lee in retreat. the wagons for wounded?

The some of the captured wagons contained valuable and nutritious feed for the horses. Working stock cannot thrive on forage, alone.

Edit: Eric and I posted at the same time :smile:
 
I'm not blaming Stuart for the loss at Gettysburg. As the title suggests there is blame enough for all. I am saying that Stuart screwed up discretionary orders in that he should have sacked the wagon train and moved on and that Lee was ticked off by this. I am saying Stuart gave 100%.
In my mind the the end of this whole debacle is best summoned by Lee who after berating Stuart said lets put this aside and help me beat these people.
(Stuart is one of many i feel Lee needed to put in their place longstreet for example who after giving his two cents needed to get on with it. No wonder lee's heart was killing him!)
 
I wonder if Lee missed Stuart ... the man. Him. Someone else to discuss matters with.

"General Stuart. General Longstreet has suggested we move around to the right. Get between those people and Washington. What do you think General?"

"General Stuart. Please ride over to the left and speak with General Ewell. My orders were .... "

Just wondering.....

That's a real point. Stuart and the Lee family went way, way back. He and Lee were distant cousins, in fact - the various FFVs always were intertwined - and he'd courted one (possibly more) of Lee's daughters. He was the only man who happened to have Lee's blessing if he married one of them!
 
Reorganizing the cavalry while on the move in enemy territory would have been very risky, potentially disastrous. First, you have to assume that the remaining cavalry units were oversized for their assignments, and I don't think we can assume that. Scouting immediately ahead of infantry, guarding their flanks, and guarding the supply and ammunition wagons isn't the kind of glamorous assignment that's going to earn you a battlefield statue or a book, but it all has to be done. I assume considerable thought had been put into sizing these units. A detached cavalry recon unit has to be large enough to fight its way out of any situation it might encounter. Where would so many men come from, while adequately covering all the other necessary assignments? How would its command structure be set up? I can clearly see why this option did not appeal to Lee.

It wasn't a reorganization as much as it was Lee using the cavalry he had available. Jenkins' Brigade was with Ewell's Corps (and was screening his advance, Imboden's Brigade was of questionable quality and Lee was comfortable sending them to forage northwest of his line of march rather than relying on their intelligence capabilities, and had Jones' and Robertson's Brigades covering the gaps back in Virginia. Those two brigades could have been brought up much sooner than they were and used to screen the advance. Lee is partly responsible for their misuse as is Robertson (who was in overall command) who sat on his duff not doing much at all.

Ryan
 
I'm not blaming Stuart for the loss at Gettysburg. As the title suggests there is blame enough for all. I am saying that Stuart screwed up discretionary orders in that he should have sacked the wagon train and moved on and that Lee was ticked off by this. I am saying Stuart gave 100%.
In my mind the the end of this whole debacle is best summoned by Lee who after berating Stuart said lets put this aside and help me beat these people.
(Stuart is one of many i feel Lee needed to put in their place longstreet for example who after giving his two cents needed to get on with it. No wonder lee's heart was killing him!)

Except there's no direct evidence Lee was ticked off, and no direct evidence Lee berated Stuart.
 
It wasn't a reorganization as much as it was Lee using the cavalry he had available. Jenkins' Brigade was with Ewell's Corps (and was screening his advance, Imboden's Brigade was of questionable quality and Lee was comfortable sending them to forage northwest of his line of march rather than relying on their intelligence capabilities, and had Jones' and Robertson's Brigades covering the gaps back in Virginia. Those two brigades could have been brought up much sooner than they were and used to screen the advance. Lee is partly responsible for their misuse as is Robertson (who was in overall command) who sat on his duff not doing much at all.

Ryan

Not to let Lee completely off the hook, I put by far the greatest blame on Robertson.

Stuart left orders for Robertson to move north as soon as he saw the AotP moving. Robertson failed to carry out those orders. Lee sent orders for Robertson and Jones to move "without delay". This is from Lee's Official Report: "As soon as it was known that the enemy had crossed into Maryland, orders were sent to the brigades of [B.H.] Robertson and [William E.] Jones, which had been left to guard the passes of the Blue Ridge, to rejoin the army without delay."

Robertson and Jones didn't arrive until July 3.
 
Regardless of what was said by who the only reason these wagons matter is because lee needs forage when he retreats thtu ground he had gleaned. The reason he needs to retreat, among others, is because Stuart was slow with wagons that lee wont need if stuart gets there sooner?
 
Regardless of what was said by who the only reason these wagons matter is because lee needs forage when he retreats thtu ground he had gleaned. The reason he needs to retreat, among others, is because Stuart was slow with wagons that lee wont need if stuart gets there sooner?

Except without the wagons, Stuart only arrives a few hours sooner. The wagons are not a factor.
 
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Everyone agrees that he was slowed by them. After capturing them on the 28th he is slowed getting into Pennsylvania and has to fight a rearguard for the wagons on the 30th at Hanover. This alone adds twelve hours. He then proceeds to Carlisle Pa 25 miles north of and a full days ride from Gettysburg. It's another days ride back south west ti join lee. I count about 48 hours could be cut by sacking and jettisoning the wagons.
when stuart moved north between the wings of lee and ewell, stuart, the armies scouts, could not have figured this out and saving a full days ride at least?
 
Everyone agrees that he was slowed by them. After capturing them on the 28th he is slowed getting into Pennsylvania and has to fight a rearguard for the wagons on the 30th at Hanover. This alone adds twelve hours. He then proceeds to Carlisle Pa 25 miles north of and a full days ride from Gettysburg. It's another days ride back south west ti join lee. I count about 48 hours could be cut by sacking and jettisoning the wagons.

See post #27

(the question of time added/saved by the wagons has been answered)
 
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