I've run out of Civil War movies to watch!

carptrash

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Joined
Oct 22, 2021
Location
Arizona
Often overlooked: "The Tall Target" (1951) directed by Anthony Mann. A black & white noir-ish movie, inspired by The Baltimore Plot. Stars Dick Powell & Paula Raymond. One of my favorites !
Hmmmmm. My film noir expert is due in a few minute, I'll run this title past him.
 

Patrick H

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
It was to a degree, except for his unlikely ancestry to represent guerrillas, "his journey from really innocent kid to murderous guerrilla fighter was fascinating." did represent the type of transformation Fellman and others describe happening. However the death of his father in the movie triggers a reaction that is the exact opposite of most guerrillas.....who joined to avenge family in the first place,

Not sure how Holt is based on Noland in the movie other then simply both were black

Pitt with his brooding nature portrays the transformation better and the continuing desensitizing that occurred as the war went on.
Archie, I have to disagree with part of your comment. I do not understand how you could miss any of these points. Dutchy was never really murderous at any point in the story, but he was motivated to protect his friends from Jayhawkers. He reacted with disgust to every excess depicted in the movie. Dutchy's conflict with his father is because he had assimilated as a Missourian. His character was likely born a Missourian. He said: "These are my people." His father disagreed, and was more representative of the immigrant Germans who were very industrious but who stuck together and did not assimilate as well. Even so, some of the guerrillas didn't trust Dutchy's motivation. Black John even questioned Dutchy's courage, and Dutchy stared him down. Holt is loosely based on two or three black men who were with Quantrill at different times--Noland being the most famous of them. John Noland was likely the half brother or the cousin of the white Noland brothers who joined Quantrill. He went to war with his family, and they all knew it. Although Holt was not a direct representation of Noland, I think the character was hugely interesting--trusted by some, but not all. Liked by some, but not all. Dutchy had to learn to accept him. Pitt was loosely based on your own namesake, which I'm sure you know. After Pitt's confrontation with Dutchy in the little Lawrence restaurant, one of the older raiders says to Dutchy "that bastard will have YOUR scalp if you don't watch out." That's a clear reference to Archie Clements. Black John is obsessed with vengeance after his sister dies in the Kansas City jail collapse--a clear reference to Bill Anderson. Jack Bull Chiles was not directly based on anyone, but the character's name is a clear nod to the real life Jim Crow Chiles (Harry Truman's uncle by marriage.)

This is obviously one of my favorite period movies. I am familiar with many of the locales in the movie and it looks VERY authentic because it is. I am very interested in these real life characters because they were all so different and individual, as people have always been.

This next comment is neither here nor there, but was a fun experience for me. One of the extras who reacted to the massacre at Lawrence ("I thought this was to be a fair fight. We ought not be killing the young ones.") was a drama professor in Columbia, Missouri. I had the pleasure of featuring him as voice talent in a radio commercial that my advertising agency produced. He had funny dialog lines in the spot and delivered them better than I could have hoped. He just knew what I wanted and he delivered without any real direction from me--a total pro. That was a lot of fun.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
Archie, I have to disagree with part of your comment. I do not understand how you could miss any of these points. Dutchy was never really murderous at any point in the story, but he was motivated to protect his friends from Jayhawkers. He reacted with disgust to every excess depicted in the movie. Dutchy's conflict with his father is because he had assimilated as a Missourian. His character was likely born a Missourian. He said: "These are my people." His father disagreed, and was more representative of the immigrant Germans who were very industrious but who stuck together and did not assimilate as well. Even so, some of the guerrillas didn't trust Dutchy's motivation. Black John even questioned Dutchy's courage, and Dutchy stared him down. Holt is loosely based on two or three black men who were with Quantrill at different times--Noland being the most famous of them. John Noland was likely the half brother or the cousin of the white Noland brothers who joined Quantrill. He went to war with his family, and they all knew it. Although Holt was not a direct representation of Noland, I think the character was hugely interesting--trusted by some, but not all. Liked by some, but not all. Dutchy had to learn to accept him. Pitt was loosely based on your own namesake, which I'm sure you know. After Pitt's confrontation with Dutchy in the little Lawrence restaurant, one of the older raiders says to Dutchy "that bastard will have YOUR scalp if you don't watch out." That's a clear reference to Archie Clements. Black John is obsessed with vengeance after his sister dies in the Kansas City jail collapse--a clear reference to Bill Anderson. Jack Bull Chiles was not directly based on anyone, but the character's name is a clear nod to the real life Jim Crow Chiles (Harry Truman's uncle by marriage.)

This is obviously one of my favorite period movies. I am familiar with many of the locales in the movie and it looks VERY authentic because it is. I am very interested in these real life characters because they were all so different and individual, as people have always been.

This next comment is neither here nor there, but was a fun experience for me. One of the extras who reacted to the massacre at Lawrence ("I thought this was to be a fair fight. We ought not be killing the young ones.") was a drama professor in Columbia, Missouri. I had the pleasure of featuring him as voice talent in a radio commercial that my advertising agency produced. He had funny dialog lines in the spot and delivered them better than I could have hoped. He just knew what I wanted and he delivered without any real direction from me--a total pro. That was a lot of fun.
Most guerrillas were motivated to avenge or revenge wrongs. Dutchy may have joined out of a sense of community in the movie, however his reaction to the needless and criminal death of his father would indeed been out of character to most guerrillas.

As is Holts dropping out, as neither Noland or Wilson abandoned the cause I'm aware of.

In the end the movie focuses on Dutchy and Holt, who I would think are not representative characters to the majority of historical guerrillas.

And indeed if looking for historical representation of guerrillas, Pitt Mackenson was the standout..As most that perhaps started with a noble case of individual revenge, become consumed in the never ending cycle of escalating violence.
 
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Patrick H

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Most guerrillas were motivated to avenge or revenge wrongs. Dutchy may have joined out of a sense of community in the movie, however his reaction to the needless and criminal death of his father would indeed been out of character to most guerrillas.

As is Holts dropping out, as neither Noland or Wilson abandoned the cause I'm aware of.

In the end the movie focuses on Dutchy and Holt, who I would think are not representative characters to the majority of historical guerrillas.

And indeed if looking for historical representation of guerrillas, Pitt Mackenson was the standout..As most that perhaps started with a noble case of individual revenge, become consumed in the never ending cycle of escalating violence.
They are not representative of the majority. No doubt about that. We each saw what we saw, and we each came away with different take-aways. I think that's a good tribute to the quality of the movie.

For me, the love story was a distraction, as was the exposition in the first few minutes of dialogue. I think it would have been a better film without those elements, but it was one of the best I've seen regardless.
 

FPT

Private
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
I found a movie on VUDU starring Neal Mcdonogh (I first saw him in "Band Of Brothers") called "The Warrant". It is a CW flashback/post CW Western occurring in Missouri (beautifully filmed in GA) and came out in 2020. Critics roasted the movie but I enjoyed it enough to watch it again six months later.

(Note: This critic was raised by his father on John Wayne and Randolph Scott movies.)
 

FPT

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Joined
Jun 28, 2012
This film is oft maligned for the nasty editing job done after director John Huston turned the movie over to the studio. Audie Murphy is always a plus but it is interesting to note that another WWII icon, Bill Mauldin, also appears in it.
Agree that it is a good movie. Did not know that John Huston did not finish the movie.
 

FPT

Private
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
I would not recommend the American Confederate (Parker Stevenson as Sherman), released a couple of day`s ago on 10 Sep 2019 and went straight to DVD, now after watching it I understand why. The only pleasure that I will get from that movie is when I give it to someone else and watch their faces when they sit down to watch it for the first time. Low budget does not begin to define this movie... Terrible. The Budget for the movie was $1,700,000 (estimated). Parker Stevenson was the only skilled actor in it and his scenes were the only tolerable ones in the movie, which were far too few.
It passed the time as background for me as I was painting my miniatures.
 
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