Announcement It's September! Here are some things we can discuss, and two things we won't.

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Yankee Brooke

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@ErnieMac and @JerseyBart

I cannot begin to imagine what you go through. I moderate for a forum, which luckily doesn't have near as many hot button issues. It's about lightsabers and Star Wars, and stays fittingly lighthearted.
(If you want to make my job harder though, go to the forum and say "Disney is the best thing that ever happened to Star Wars!" :eek: )

Thank you and the other mods, as well as @CivilWarTalk and @ami for all that you do!
 
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5fish

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But it seems like now that I'm giving the gift of a American Slavery Forum to you, it's not enough for you. Maybe you don't deserve this forum.
You do realize what you have created with this forum as it is or was. Your forum has organically grown into a one stop place for all things before, during and after the Civil War and related topics. Your forum organically became a home for all fans of the Civil War from the Lost Causers, Neo-Confederates, Bloggers, Authors, Historians, and many more, even trolls like me...were welcome as long as we followed the rules.

Your changes give some of us a feeling we are not welcome anymore. You seem to be trying to close us out. Even if may not be true, it feels that way...

I like many others can not see the vision you want to create and many like me believe you had created a great forum already and may needed some adjustments but not whole sale changes.

I believe you should let your members post as they like ... and let them be... let free thought thrive...

Maybe people should take a deep breath and wait until the forums are rolled out for real.
We will wait an see maybe the new vision will come into focus...
 

CivilWarTalk

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You do realize what you have created with this forum as it is or was. Your forum has organically grown into a one stop place for all things before, during and after the Civil War and related topics. Your forum organically became a home for all fans of the Civil War from the Lost Causers, Neo-Confederates, Bloggers, Authors, Historians, and many more, even trolls like me...were welcome as long as we followed the rules.

Your changes give some of us a feeling we are not welcome anymore. You seem to be trying to close us out. Even if may not be true, it feels that way...

I like many others can not see the vision you want to create and many like me believe you had created a great forum already and may needed some adjustments but not whole sale changes.

I believe you should let your members post as they like ... and let them be... let free thought thrive...



We will wait an see maybe the new vision will come into focus...
Um.... well.... I can speak to this I think....

In the new format all will be welcome, the new format will have general discussion areas and shouldn't stop discussions that are creative and interesting. We love creativity! We adore amazing content!

However, what we are trying to "close out" and minimize is the rude, uncalled for, and unwanted flag waving that's been going on. We can have all kinds of discussions. Just stop trying to rub everything in everybody else's face.

We see this in the in the Confederate Flag threads, and the Monument threads, and the Secession threads, and the Slavery threads, and now in the Black Confederate threads. We saw it in the Reconstruction threads.

Everybody either wants to debate with the first person who disagrees with them, or they insist you sign this oath to prove their allegiance to this position that they need you to align with....this is what's virtually happening all the time.

I've always said, "Agree to disagree with respect!" We have that as a permanent sign in some of our forums. However, some of our members are blind to that sign, and still blatantly fight over all kinds of trivial matters that frankly, I think grade schoolers could settle with more grace and dignity than what I've seen from some members.

So I'm left with few choices...

Perhaps by putting up a few walls, some of these members won't have to look each other in the eye all the time, and less fights will break out, and more productive discussion will be the result, therefore, more happy members and better forum content can be had.

And that's what's making some people so mad. When I put up these walls, they don't have anybody to debate with, at least not an unwilling participant they can easily defeat. They also can't annoy people with their agenda that they want to spread, that defeats their purpose of either tearing the website apart or building up their own "posse" for their own purposes.

That's the theory at least.
 
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archieclement

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You do realize what you have created with this forum as it is or was. Your forum has organically grown into a one stop place for all things before, during and after the Civil War and related topics. Your forum organically became a home for all fans of the Civil War from the Lost Causers, Neo-Confederates, Bloggers, Authors, Historians, and many more, even trolls like me...were welcome as long as we followed the rules.

Your changes give some of us a feeling we are not welcome anymore. You seem to be trying to close us out. Even if may not be true, it feels that way...

I like many others can not see the vision you want to create and many like me believe you had created a great forum already and may needed some adjustments but not whole sale changes.

I believe you should let your members post as they like ... and let them be... let free thought thrive...



We will wait an see maybe the new vision will come into focus...
I obviously have some concerns/reservations, appreciated the opportunity to express them, so trying to remain quiet and give everything a chance.

However just want to say I've viewed CWT somewhat a online family, like all families we may be a bit dysfunctional at times, not always on the same page, vision, politics, ect..... However I've seldom questioned the sincerity of most the regulars in wanting they think is best for all here as a community. So I just would caution some of the rhetoric from all members, its hard to unsay some things once said.
 

John Winn

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Um.... well.... I can speak to this I think....

In the new format all will be welcome, the new format will have general discussion areas and shouldn't stop discussions that are creative and interesting. We love creativity! We adore amazing content!

However, what we are trying to "close out" and minimize is the rude, uncalled for, and unwanted flag waving that's been going on. We can have all kinds of discussions. Just stop trying to rub everything in everybody else's face.

We see this in the in the Confederate Flag threads, and the Monument threads, and the Secession threads, and the Slavery threads, and now in the Black Confederate threads. We saw it in the Reconstruction threads.

Everybody either wants to debate with the first person who disagrees with them, or they insist you sign this oath to prove their allegiance to this position that they need you to align with....this is what's virtually happening all the time.

I've always said, "Agree to disagree with respect!" We have that as a permanent sign in some of our forums. However, some of our members are blind to that sign, and still blatantly fight over all kinds of trivial matters that frankly, I think grade schoolers could settle with more grace and dignity than what I've seen from some members.

So I'm left with few choices...

Perhaps by putting up a few walls, some of these members won't have to look each other in the eye all the time, and less fights will break out, and more productive discussion will be the result, therefore, more happy members and better forum content can be had.

And that's what's making some people so mad. When I put up these walls, they don't have anybody to debate with, at least not an unwilling participant they can easily defeat. They also can't annoy people with their agenda that they want to spread, that defeats their purpose of either tearing the website apart or building up their own "posse" for their own purposes.

That's the theory at least.
I'm trying not to get into any debate about the changes and will be happy to just wait and see how it goes.

I will say, though, that I have witnessed (and been the target of) the sort of behavior and personalities you describe and it has caused me to avoid some forums altogether and to limit my participation in many threads. It does seem to me that there was a change toward uncivil argument (vs civil debate) - sometimes bordering on personal attack - in the last couple of years. CWT had a different feel when I joined and I note that a number of wonderful, long-time members now rarely post or have simply moved on. Maybe that just happens with time but I suspect at least some also felt the same change as me.

I still enjoy CWT and appreciate all the work it takes to keep it afloat but I'm not interested in argument just for the sake of argument and easily tire of persons with an agenda or a chip on their shoulder. Maybe I'm just not cut out for the internet (this is my only exposure) or am just too thin-skinned; who knows.

As has been noted, I suspect there are some who will just not be happy with whatever you do and they'll probably just pack up and try and find someplace else that suits them better. I'll stick around and see how things go before making any sort of judgment.

Good luck and thanks for trying.


Edit and p.s.: I forgot to say that my personal goals for membership are 1) to learn something 2) to help others when I can 3) to have a little social discourse with others who share my interests. While I certainly am as opinionated as the average guy I'm really not interested in debating opinion, especially the more it drifts into opinions about morality or honor or heritage and the like. If I see evidence that one of my opinions needs changing I'll do so but I'm not going to engage in arguing about whether I've come to the correct opinion. So, from a 'customer' standpoint, anything that reduces opinionated argument will be an improvement and an inducement to engage with others. The more things are just left to be a free-for-all the less that'll be for me. Just a little member feedback.
 
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ami

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I believe you should let your members post as they like ... and let them be... let free thought thrive...
yeah that's the thing though. do you know how many complaints we get about Black Confederates and Slavery threads taking over the forum - no, you don't. Because these people don't publicly complain, and call people out or have these arguments.

I'll let you in on the secret. IT'S A LOT of people - a lot more than the 4 or 5 people complaining that these new forums are "segragation" and "ironic that history is repeating its' self"

The general population doesn't want to have these threads thrown in their face day after day, heck even minute after minute. yet they are ALWAYS on the homepage, you can not escape them. They are scaring new members away, making old members not want to be here and causing angst.

As you can see, we are trying to appease the members that want to do UFC style boxing day in and day out. give them a proper ring to duke it out in. But we are also trying to protect what CivilWarTalk has been from the beginning. (And the Beginning goes back a lot further than 2012 when certain former members tried slipping in and planting destruction seeds.)

I don't know why this is so hard to understand. Just because there are 5 LOUD members who are being argumentative in this thread doesn't mean that the other couple of hundred of people agree with with them.

Sometiems we have to remind ourseleves that just because my opinion is most important to me and I shout the loudest doesn't mean that's what everyone thinks. Infact, I'd be willing to bet the people that agree with Mike, or at least like the idea, are the ones rolling their eyes wondering when these loudmouths are gonna get off their soap box and let them just go about their day.
 

bdtex

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CWT had a different feel when I joined and I note that a number of wonderful, long-time members now rarely post or have simply moved on. Maybe that just happens with time but I suspect at least some also felt the same change as me.
A number of those members have passed away and their goodwill towards other members went with them. They are missed here.
 

major bill

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As a good soldier I never asked why orders were given or asked what the thought process behind the orders was. My job was to vigorously obey the orders as given. The site owners seen a problem and opted for a solution. They do not owe me an explanation over why they opted for what they decided to do, nor even what the problem was.
 
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John Hartwell

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Conversations that touch on slavery will be permitted anywhere in the forum. Conversations focused on slavery should be started or will be moved to the Slavery forum. But otherwise, yes, you were pretty close.
Thank you, that's the most reassuring thing I've read in the past several pages. So, for most of us there should be little difference, except when starting new slavery-focused threads.

I almost never see the Homepage. The first bookmark in my toolbar is the CWT "New Posts" page, & I work directly from there. Now there are four "New Post" pages to check ... though most of the time I'll probably forget 2 or 3 of them.
 
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CivilWarTalk

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Thank you, that's the most reassuring thing I've read in the past several pages. So, for most of us there should be little difference, except when starting slavery-focused threads.

I almost never see the Homepage. The first bookmark in my toolbar is the CWT "New Posts" page, & I work directly from there. Now there are four "New Post" pages to check ... though most of the time I'll probably forget 2 or 3 of them.
Yes, you've got it exactly.
 

Peter Stines

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The slavery issue and Black Confederates are such hot button issues and yet there is no clean cut answer to how to handle them. I'm not a fan of censorship, but some folks just need to grow up. You can't change what happened 150 plus years ago and you can't bring our ancestors up to modern standards. They were a product of their time. Let the discussion continue and reign it in when it gets too ugly. Like John Wayne said in THE ALAMO "..........separate the sheep from the goats........."
 
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CivilWarTalk

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Actually I'm somewhat hopeful. I've been going through a lot of threads, many of them locked or even deleted, and I've been thinking, maybe we don't need to lock threads like this anymore. We have a place to have this discussion now! We don't have to ban members for bringing this topic up now!

I had a really positive attitude coming into this.

I was even thinking this might let us explore the founding of the nation a little bit, maybe explore the American Revolution, with the backbone and strength of CivilWarTalk to support the forum, it might have even worked.....

Of course somebody had to bring me back to reality and the voice of dissention. I knew it was coming, and I let it happen.

I guess I should drop all that and instead create a forum for Black Ancestry from the Civil War era, because that's what we really all want to discuss.....
 
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John Winn

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A number of those members have passed away and their goodwill towards other members went with them. They are missed here.
Yep. We lucked out here to have had those folks. Chellers and Brass were becoming good friends and I got to meet Brass in 2016. The very voices of reason.

Unfortunately, there's a number of long-time members who are still with us in the flesh I've noticed rarely post these days and I don't think it's just a coincidence.

My only other experience with internet forums was some years ago when I was a member of an acoustic guitar forum that had been created as a spin-off of a yearly camp so as to allow those who attended the camp to stay in touch and continue to share musically. For a while it was great and even attracted a few real recording artists. Before too long, though, it got discovered and there were more and more drop-ins who would, more often than not, cause a ruckus, toss a few hand grenades, and then never be seen again. In time several tenacious, angry types just stuck around and turned a large number of threads into arguments and insults. That caused a good number of the original members to leave. Two years later the owner of the site (one of the creators of the camp) just decided that wasn't what he had in mind and that the whole thing was too much of a headache for a working musician and he pulled the plug (there weren't any moderators).

While I think it very unlikely a similar scenario would play out here what we're seeing with an increase in argument and insult and a handful of members with an obvious agenda is similar. I'm hoping for the best and a return to a more civil time. Let's just give Mike a chance.
 
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