Restricted Is there an organized effort to get rid of Confederate symbols?

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unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Just curious about what people think about the opinion that there is an organized effort to get rid of Confederate symbols.

Well, is there? Are their organizations dedicated to the idea of ridding the United States of all Confederate symbols? The Confederate Battle Flag? Confederate monuments? Confederate graveyards? Other Confederate symbols to include jewelry, belt buckles, prom dresses, bathing suits, t-shirts, placards, paintings, or even books concerning Confederate history?

Again, just curious as to what people think.

Unionblue
 

Sneathen

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Part of me wishes there was, but I highly doubt it. Though it seems some within the government, federal and some local/state would like to censor (again not all). But I highly doubt there's a really mass organized movement. But maybe there's some neo-confederate out there with their tin foil hat on in the Glenn Beck paranoia sense, I dunno.
 

jgoodguy

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IMHO preventing the CBF and other confederate flags from flying on public and semi public property would be the objective of several groups. Also dress codes preventing Confederate themed clothing and emblems from public organizations and schools are common. Renaming public schools from Confederate Generals or Confederate terms to something else seems to be common.

One of the problems however is how much of this is overt actions by militant groups and how much is the passage of time as folks even in the South lose interest in the Old Confederacy. In my life time of 62 years, the last confederate veteran and the last son of a confederate veteran has died. The family ties to the Old Confederacy has diminished. I understand the SCV (sons confederate veterans) almost went extinct and currently is just 30,000 members. The UDC is slowly withering away also. A concern is that many Confederate monuments are maintained by the UDC and if it goes extinct there is no current organization ready to take that up.

I have heard interest in the Confederacy in the South described as a niche market.
 

diane

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Remember reading something about the Egyptians - new pharohs would go around chopping the heads off statues of the old pharohs, mashing up their faces, tearing up their temples and replacing it all with things they built and statues of themselves. Some even kept the statues' bodies and put their own heads on instead! It didn't get rid of the old pharohs, though.

I think there are people, even organizations or factions of organizations, who are trying to do this but if they are trying to cleanse the country of all things Confederate they'll need a much longer lifetime than any of us get. It has other meanings, though, than being about the Confederacy. But I would have to say yes to the question. Just don't think it should be done - what do you do with a Confederate cemetery? That grand equestrian monument of Robert E Lee? Do you remove all the Confederate monuments from battlefields? A lot of the monuments and statues that are currently being vandalized or moved or stolen were put up by BOTH sides. Is it right to pluck the little Confederate flags off the graves of Confederate soldiers on Memorial Day? Will CSA-Today have to change his handle? It just has too many ramifications that aren't worth the efforts of those who would like to eradicate that part of our history.

Think I'll cleanse the West of all pertaining to those foreign invaders... Well, maybe after dinner. We have a Mongolian BBQ that serves medicinal marijuana dishes. Ahh! California...
 

unionblue

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To All,

The reason I began this thread is because of what Battalion posted on the "Memory is all that is left" thread begun by shanniereb, where he said:

"There's been an attack one Everything Confederate now for several decades. Flags removed, monuments taken down or destryed (even someone on this board advocated the destruction of a Confederat monument), and on and on...

The Cleburne Prophecy is in full bloom.
What do you do? Let it slide?"


(Battalion, post #8, "Memory is all that is left" thread.)

And under the "likes" section of that post, Robtweb1, Lee, shanniereb, and CSA Today indicated they 'liked' the above.

A bit later, bama46 posted the following on the same thread:

"While I agree with a lot of what you say, I also understand the point Battalion is making as well. there is a group dedicated to erasing all things confederate from the national consciousness. I believe that is their phrase, not mine. It is this all out assualt on confederate veterans, symbols, views and opinions that Battalion is talking about."

(bama46, post #26, "Memory is all that is left" thread.)

Once again, in the like section, we have both Lee and CSA Today indicating they liked the above quote.

Then the last post that caught my attention was also from Battalion:

"I'm not for that either. But how many Union memorials/monuments have been vandalized compared to Confederate? 1 to 20? 1 to 50? The vandalism of Confederate monuments have been (mostly) politically motivated. That's probably not the case with Union monuments."

(Battalion, post #31, "Memory is all that is left" thread.)

When I asked Battalion in a later post on the same thread if he had any actual figures for vandalized monuments, Confederate or Union, he said he did not have any.

Now, obviously, there is a feeling that "Everything Confederate" is under attack and "that there is a group dedicated to erasing all things confederate from the national consciousness."

My first question. Is there a group, or groups, dedicated to erasing all things confederate?

Second question. Are Confederate monuments being destroyed or vandalized at a greater rate than other monuments, Union or otherwise?

Last question. Are Confederate monuments being vandalized mainly due to political motivations?

Obviously, there are some of the forum members who feel there is an effort to get rid of Confederate symbols, but to what extent?

I would enjoy your input on these questions.

Sincerely,
Unionblue
 

DanF

Captain
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Feb 29, 2012
ridding the US of confederate symbols completely? No, I don't think so. Removing them from public/govt property? yes though I wouldn't say they are all that organized.

Like jgoodguy I would say much of it is a backlash from the use of the CBF by white supremicst groups as well as the screechings of the more militant "southern heritage" groups.
 

16thVA

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For the moment, it seems that anti-Confederate memorialists are saying that they object to public displays of Confederate symbols on public property or in prominent public space, though they don't object to displays in cemeteries. But it really is only a matter of time until they begin to object to displays in cemeteries. It's something like Christmas-creep.
 

Red Harvest

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No organized effort that I can see. Confederate organizations have been pretty busy putting up new monuments (not replacements) from what I've seen of battlefield tours, some of these are really nicely done. I've hunted down long lost UDC monuments on little known fields and they were undamaged other than weathering. On one of them I didn't know the marker was there, but was using topography, AAR's and dead reckoning to determine the line of march and initial contact when I came across it, right where I was guessing things would have started.

I did see a toppled battlefield interpretive marker at Brice's Crossroads a few weeks ago--but that would be a non-partisan monument. Could have been intetentional, but it is just as possible that the large vertical slab lacked a proper foundation and sunk in on the backside--the supporting concrete blocks in the earth looked like they had shifted and separated to me, but I couldn't establish cause and effect.

As for the CBF, it has earned a controversial reputation in the hands of racists during the post war years. While I don't find the flag offensive in an historical setting (rather the symbol of militant support of secession), the way some use it most certainly is: in your face and taunting, or even bullying. I can understand why some groups and individuals object to such a symbol flying over non-ACW public property. If I were AA and from the Deep South I wouldn't have a lick of tolerance for it after 100 years of Jim Crow.
 

jgoodguy

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For the moment, it seems that anti-Confederate memorialists are saying that they object to public displays of Confederate symbols on public property or in prominent public space, though they don't object to displays in cemeteries. But it really is only a matter of time until they begin to object to displays in cemeteries. It's something like Christmas-creep.

Yep Christmas is creeping more and more toward the fourth of July.
 

Red Harvest

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For the moment, it seems that anti-Confederate memorialists are saying that they object to public displays of Confederate symbols on public property or in prominent public space, though they don't object to displays in cemeteries. But it really is only a matter of time until they begin to object to displays in cemeteries.

Only thing I objected to in a well-off-the-beaten-path Deepest South cemetery was when I passed through canoeing around Memorial day: Didn't see any U.S. flags despite tombstones for later U.S. war vets, but plenty of CBF's planted all over the place for Confederate vets.

Something else I noticed living a few miles upriver from there, much less patriotism and teaching of the constitution, Revolution, etc. I was glad to get my kids back up to a midwest border state where people are prouder of their nation than their section.
 

Mark F. Jenkins

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No, no organized and systematic campaign. It may seem this way to some, but it's a matter of perception.

Among some people, groups safeguarding individual and collective rights, such as the Southern Poverty Law Center and the American Civil Liberties Union, have become litmus-tests or shibboleths for their concepts of political correctness and a perceived campaign of restriction. The restrictions are real, of course, but the intent is different than that represented by many of those reacting to it.

Are all the actions the SPLC and ACLU involve themselves with right? I doubt it, but that's why they're settled in public courts. Their roles are gadfly/antagonist, and those sorts of things are uncomfortable but necessary to help protect us from the 'tyranny of the majority.'
 

tmh10

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No, no organized and systematic campaign. It may seem this way to some, but it's a matter of perception.

Among some people, groups safeguarding individual and collective rights, such as the Southern Poverty Law Center and the American Civil Liberties Union, have become litmus-tests or shibboleths for their concepts of political correctness and a perceived campaign of restriction. The restrictions are real, of course, but the intent is different than that represented by many of those reacting to it.

Are all the actions the SPLC and ACLU involve themselves with right? I doubt it, but that's why they're settled in public courts. Their roles are gadfly/antagonist, and those sorts of things are uncomfortable but necessary to help protect us from the 'tyranny of the majority.'
If this keeps up, you will be put in jail for putting up a Christmas tree. Heaven forbid a Navity scene.
 

Red Harvest

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Are all the actions the SPLC and ACLU involve themselves with right? I doubt it, but that's why they're settled in public courts. Their roles are gadfly/antagonist, and those sorts of things are uncomfortable but necessary to help protect us from the 'tyranny of the majority.'

Amen to that! While I hate some of the causes that the ACLU will defend (including the KKK and Westboro Baptist Church) I recognize that they will take on even the most excreable clients in defense of perceived civil rights. And don't get me started on Westboro's most detestable perversion of "Christianity." While I most often want the ACLU to lose any given case, I see them as a necessary obstacle to group think/mob mentality.
 
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