Is the Abbeville Institute a Reliable Source for Information Related to the Civil War?

Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Status
Not open for further replies.

jgoodguy

Banished Forever
-:- A Mime -:-
is a terrible thing...
Don’t feed the Mime
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
I don't know why Wilson chose to avoid quote citations, but in the Internet age it is unwise to dismiss un-cited quotations as necessarily false.

Some of Wilson's quotes, such as "Root hog, or die" are famous.

Other such as those below can be found via a Google search:

1. It is very clear that the South gains by this process and we lose. No, we must not let the South go. -- Union Democrat, Manchester New Hampshire, February 19, 1861
2. "The commercial bearing of the question has acted upon the North. We were divided and confused until our pockets were touched." -- New York Times, March 30, 1861
3. "Why not let the South go? O that the South would go! But then they must leave us their lands.” — Joesph Hubbard, The Life of Henry Ward Beecher, (Philadelphia, Hubbard Brothers, 1887), 19
Nonetheless, I agree that it would have been preferable for Wilson to footnote his sources.
You make some good points. IMHO Wilson should have at least hyperlinked his quotes outside of aphorisms. It is my intention to review this as a Reliable Source for Information. It might be a good starting point where to go with an essay, but not a reliable source.

What is a Reliable Source
A reliable source is one that provides a thorough, well-reasoned theory, argument, discussion, etc. based on strong evidence.​
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

Philip Leigh

formerly Harvey Johnson
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
You make some good points. IMHO Wilson should have at least hyperlinked his quotes outside of aphorisms. It is my intention to review this as a Reliable Source for Information. It might be a good starting point where to go with an essay, but not a reliable source.

What is a Reliable Source
A reliable source is one that provides a thorough, well-reasoned theory, argument, discussion, etc. based on strong evidence.​
The ultimate merit of Wilson's analysis is partly linked to the validity of the quotes and facts he asserts but not to whether he documents them in a particular form. Thus, I would ask Wilson to explain his claim that "Most of '[Lincoln's tariff] revenue' was collected at the Southern ports . . ." —— not because he failed to cite a source, but because it is known that New York City was technically the dominant tariff collection point.
 
Last edited:

jgoodguy

Banished Forever
-:- A Mime -:-
is a terrible thing...
Don’t feed the Mime
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
The ultimate merit of Wilson's analysis is partly linked to the validity of the quotes and facts he asserts but not to whether he documents them in a particular form. Thus, I would ask Wilson to explain his claim that "Most of '[Lincoln's tariff] revenue' was collected at the Southern ports . . ." —— not because he failed to cite a source, but because it is known that New York City was technically the dominant tariff collection point.
Interesting defense, but the issue is not merit, but reliability and reliability has some specific characteristics one of which is strong evidence. If we have to research the evidence, then the evidence is weak.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

jgoodguy

Banished Forever
-:- A Mime -:-
is a terrible thing...
Don’t feed the Mime
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
Reliability

What is 'reliability'?

Reliability of sources evaluates whether they are trustworthy. It is important that the sources you use in your assessment pieces are reliable so that the quotes you use from them can be trusted. In the same way that it is rare to get sources that are 100% accurate, it is hard to be completely sure that sources are 100% reliable. Therefore, when we talk about the reliability of sources, we can talk in terms of ‘degrees of reliability':
Extremely - Very – Somewhat – Rarely – Not very

How do I assess reliability?
Based upon what you discovered in your analysis of the source, you can establish reliability based upon any of the following:
  1. The creator of the source was present at the time of the event.
  2. The creator of the source has a highly educated perspective on the topic. (e.g. a university professor)
  3. The source has been fact-checked, and subsequently approved, by its audience. (e.g. an academic journal)
  4. The purpose of the source was to provide facts, rather than simply opinions, about the topic.
Using this standard.
The article
#1 fails.
#2 passes(conditionally-we need to review Wilson's Credentials).
#3 fails.
#4 fails.
 

jgoodguy

Banished Forever
-:- A Mime -:-
is a terrible thing...
Don’t feed the Mime
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
Also concerning me, is that at the macro level without looking at the details in the article, it is failing the reliability test. It may be intended to be an opinion/editorial so while it may be meeting its objectives, it fails the reliability test for the OP of this thread. The issue is reliability if the Abbeville site is just op-eds then while it may be serving its purpose, it is not reliable for ours.
 

Pat Young

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Featured Book Reviewer
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Location
Long Island, NY
Frankly, until I joined the discussions in this Forum I had never heard of the Abbeville Institute. I am still largely ignorant of its views. I'd like to have a calm, reasoned, civil discussion on its value as a source of information about the Civil War, its causes and its effect on America.
Thanks!
Before the Internet Age few people would have ever heard of the Abbeville Institute. Because it is now linked to by web sites associated with modern secessionist and NeoConfederate proclivities it gets some limited traction among the uninitiated.

AI does have some college faculty among its members and it isn’t as given to crackpotism as some of the folks who link to it for support. It has little funding and has never seemed to focus on the sorts of questions I see raised here. I can’t recall ever attending a scholarly presentation or watching one on YouTube where Abbeville was ever cited. Academic Scholarship on the Civil War usually is found in publications like the journals Civil War History, The Journal of the Civil War Era, The Journal of Southern History, etc., not the publications of the Abbeville Institute. Here is a 2009 Chronicle of Higher Education article on Abbeville that gives some background.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/Secretive-Scholars-of-the-Old/49337
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

WJC

Major General
Judge Adv. Genl.
Thread Medic
Answered the Call for Reinforcements
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Because the quote sources are readily available by searching the applicable phrase via a search engine.
Thanks for your response.
If that is the rationale, it is, in my opinion, faulty and a sign of the author's intellectual laziness. A serious writer should understand what he/she wants to present, do his/her research thoroughly, write and rewrite until the product is straightforward and easy to read on its own. He/she has the burden of producing a clear, concise accurate and factual exposition, one that fully stands on its own.
 

jgoodguy

Banished Forever
-:- A Mime -:-
is a terrible thing...
Don’t feed the Mime
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
Before the Internet Age few people would have ever heard of the Abbeville Institute. Because it is now linked to by web sites associated with modern secessionist and NeoConfederate proclivities it gets some limited traction among the uninitiated.

AI does have some college faculty among its members and it isn’t as given to crackpotism as some of the folks who link to it for support. It has little funding and has never seemed to focus on the sorts of questions I see raised here. I can’t recall ever attending a scholarly presentation or watching one on YouTube where Abbeville was ever cited. Academic Scholarship on the Civil War usually is found in publications like the journals Civil War History, The Journal of the Civil War Era, The Journal of Southern History, etc., not the publications of the Abbeville Institute. Here is a 2009 Chronicle of Higher Education article on Abbeville that gives some background.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/Secretive-Scholars-of-the-Old/49337
Seems to me that Abbeville is more agenda and less academic. This article is December 2009, about 9 years ago. The study of Southern views and the culture in which they existed is somewhat neglected, although the assertion of the evil Lincoln IMHO is as or more damaging than neglecting the issue.

Arming the Next Generation
One of Abbeville's most important purposes, according to Mr. Livingston, is to arm the next generation of Southern intellectuals with an education they cannot expect to get from their high-school or college curricula.

"The Southern tradition as taught in the academy today, if taught at all, is studied mainly as a function of the ideological needs of others," Mr. Livingston says. "It is not examined in terms of its own inner light. It is as if you had programs of Jewish studies explored from the point of view of Catholics, or worse, of Nazis."

To try and rectify this, Abbeville members hold an annual summer program in which they give talks to 35 undergraduate and graduate students, who apply to attend. Most are from the South and are educated there.

One of the attendees at this year's program, Stephen L. Heiner, is earning an M.B.A. at Rockhurst University, in Kansas City, Mo., and was born in Singapore. He describes a camplike atmosphere with banjo playing, nightly beach bonfires, and group meals. Instead of tetherball and archery, of course, the days were filled with lectures. And, unlike at some summer camps, he says, everyone was polite.

To listen to those lectures posted online is to hear a rarely told side of the American story: Abraham Lincoln is not the Great Emancipator; he is Dishonest Abe, a president hellbent on creating a big central government, even if that meant waging war. Reconstruction could be seen as a Yankee power grab that did more harm than good. Secession itself did not cause the Civil War. (Mr. Livingston said in one lecture that "war is actually caused by forced attempts at unification.")​
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

Rusk County Avengers

Sergeant Major
Forum Host
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Location
Coffeeville, TX
Frankly, until I joined the discussions in this Forum I had never heard of the Abbeville Institute. I am still largely ignorant of its views. I'd like to have a calm, reasoned, civil discussion on its value as a source of information about the Civil War, its causes and its effect on America.
Thanks!
No offence, but I strongly suspect without ever seeing a thread on it, the Abbeville Institute has the potential to be a powder keg Edited thread wise lol.

That being said I'd say it strongly depends on the subject their covering, the author, or authors, and what's going on in the news as far as their reliability goes. While I can't recall off hand anything on particular articles, I'd say their reliable 30% of the time, unreliable 50%, and in-between the last 20% with a paragraph or two being good and the rest being out there. But that's me, and I don't pay much attention to them as their just as hardcore biased towards the C.S.A. as a lot of hardcore pro U.S.A. on the war. I prefer unbiased, or biased within reason, but again that's me.

I give Abbeville Institute a proceed with strong caution as to their reliability, mainly because they get their stories straight sometimes.
 

jgoodguy

Banished Forever
-:- A Mime -:-
is a terrible thing...
Don’t feed the Mime
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
No offence, but I strongly suspect without ever seeing a thread on it, the Abbeville Institute has the potential to be a powder keg Edited thread wise lol.

That being said I'd say it strongly depends on the subject their covering, the author, or authors, and what's going on in the news as far as their reliability goes. While I can't recall off hand anything on particular articles, I'd say their reliable 30% of the time, unreliable 50%, and in-between the last 20% with a paragraph or two being good and the rest being out there. But that's me, and I don't pay much attention to them as their just as hardcore biased towards the C.S.A. as a lot of hardcore pro U.S.A. on the war. I prefer unbiased, or biased within reason, but again that's me.

I give Abbeville Institute a proceed with strong caution as to their reliability, mainly because they get their stories straight sometimes.
Indeed, however, with at least one moderator and a host on board, the opportunity for explosions should be contained. A purpose of this thread is to quantify the reliability of the Abbeville Institute as a source. Hopefully, by looking at a sample of articles, reliability can be determined. Sometimes less than perfect evidence can open a pathway of inquiry. I hope that in the future, instead of dismissal by a wave of a hand, an Abbeville Instititon assertion will be reviewed using the reliable sources methodology and its defects showed instead of he said/she said type exchanges.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

Rusk County Avengers

Sergeant Major
Forum Host
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Location
Coffeeville, TX
Before the Internet Age few people would have ever heard of the Abbeville Institute. Because it is now linked to by web sites associated with modern secessionist and NeoConfederate proclivities it gets some limited traction among the uninitiated.

AI does have some college faculty among its members and it isn’t as given to crackpotism as some of the folks who link to it for support. It has little funding and has never seemed to focus on the sorts of questions I see raised here. I can’t recall ever attending a scholarly presentation or watching one on YouTube where Abbeville was ever cited. Academic Scholarship on the Civil War usually is found in publications like the journals Civil War History, The Journal of the Civil War Era, The Journal of Southern History, etc., not the publications of the Abbeville Institute. Here is a 2009 Chronicle of Higher Education article on Abbeville that gives some background.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/Secretive-Scholars-of-the-Old/49337
I'd say the link is a fair interpretation of Abbeville Institute. Like I said in my previous comment, I have no special regard for it, and am distrustful of their articles till I fact check it. I will admit the founder has intrigued me on his interpretation of the C.S. Constitution in a documentary of some sort I saw ages ago, but most of their articles they put up, or share on FB appall me lol.
Just had to add to what I had said after reading the link.
 

Rusk County Avengers

Sergeant Major
Forum Host
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Location
Coffeeville, TX
Indeed, however, with at least one moderator and a host on board, the opportunity for explosions should be contained. A purpose of this thread is to quantify the reliability of the Abbeville Institute as a source.
Sorry, I just had to get it out there my surprise that the Abbeville Institute would be brought up in today's climate. I personally detest how things get, kinda turns me off and makes me hesitant to speak up.

While I haven't read any here lately, Abbeville Institute is always putting some kind of article on FB, I usually see one a day, but don't read them too much as their way too biased for my taste, and I apologize that I don't have an article off hand to put here for dissection, I will stand by what I said earlier on proceed with caution in regards to their reliability.

I haven't read anything they've put out in some time, before the great purge of anything pro-Confederate that began in 2015, I'd say some of their stuff was decent, but since, emotion has taken over.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
@CSA Today - could you offer some information on the Abbeville Institute?
I hope this helps.

The Abbeville Institute was founded in 2002 by a group of scholars in history, literature, philosophy, religion, and other disciplines who conducted a conference on “Modernity and the Southern Tradition” at the University of Virginia. We were concerned that the Southern tradition is no longer taught in colleges and universities except as a function of the ideological needs of others. With few exceptions, the Southern tradition is presented as little more than the story of racism and slavery. Eugene Genovese, a distinguished historian of the South—a Northerner and a man of the left—has been a rare voice in criticizing this effort to purge the Southern tradition and its symbols from the American landscape. In the Massey lectures he gave at Harvard in 1994 he had this to say: “Rarely these days, even on southern campuses, is it possible to acknowledge the achievements of the white people of the South …. To speak positively about any part of this southern tradition is to invite charges of being a racist and an apologist for slavery and segregation. We are witnessing a cultural and political atrocity—an increasingly successful campaign by the media and an academic elite to strip young white southerners, and arguably black southerners as well, of their heritage, and, therefore, their identity. They are being taught to forget their forbearers or to remember them with shame.”

The Institute was formed as a response to this intellectual challenge. Its purpose is to critically explore what is true and valuable in the Southern tradition. To this end, we hold summer schools for college and graduate students as well as conferences for academics at colleges and universities. We also conduct educational conferences for the public.
Edited.

https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/principles/
 

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
Anyone care to put up an article and discuss or leave it to my kind attention to detail.
How does the following work for you?

"Not long ago, a well-known conservative historian lamented that the American public had not been morally engaged to undergo sacrifice after the 9/11 attacks, unlike their heroic predecessors after Fort Sumter and Pearl Harbour.

Wait a minute. Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were massive sneak attacks by foreign enemies. The reduction of Fort Sumter was preceded by a gentlemanly warning, was bloodless, and the garrison was allowed to depart with honour. It would not have happened at all if Lincoln had not dissimulated about re-enforcements. Think about this. Why should Southerners (free Americans) permit a fort that had been built with their tax money for their protection to be used as a base to conquer and extort taxes from them? When every other federal post in the South had already been peacefully surrendered pending a political settlement. One can become outraged at Fort Sumter only by placing a higher value on the will of the political party controlling the machinery of government than on the core purpose of a free regime to protect the people.

Nor did Lincoln’s call after Fort Sumter for 75,000 troops to suppress “the rebellion” at all evoke American unity and determination like that after Pearl Harbour. The call for troops was illegal and the 75,000 was either a deliberate deception or the most terrible mistake in American history, since over a million men were eventually required to complete the conquest of the Southern people and the destruction of their self-government. The immediate effect of Lincoln’s mobilization was to drive four more states out of the Union, put the Border States into bloody play, and require military rule in much of the North such as was unprecedented in American experience. And ultimately to require systematic terrorism against noncombatants that is still a source of shame for all decent Americans. It is true Lincoln got a temporary boost of morale from having forced the Confederacy to “fire on the flag,” but that did not last. The number of Northern men who evaded service in Mr. Lincoln’s war in one way or another was in the hundreds of thousands, and more Northerners voted against him in 1864 than had in 1860, even though the army was used to control the polls.
Edited.

https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/clyde-wilson-library/the-treasury-of-counterfeit-virtue/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Top