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Is Gregory G. Newson wrong about his account of 65,000 black confederates

Discussion in 'Civil War History - Secession and Politics' started by jgoodguy, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brev. Brig. Gen'l Forum Host Retired Moderator

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    Please discuss.

    http://www.gettysburgtimes.com/news/local/article_f72026ec-6c1c-55c2-b719-f87d5c2c8afa.html ***link added by Lnwlf ***

    For reference, see the related spreadsheets "CWT Black Confederates"
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hcTP3nLffyCIA-ReGaoK-ykdtGTE5g5AHYyWA8a9al4/edit#gid=0
    and "CWT Black & Mulatto Men with CSA Service Records"
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lMwLryB3saMN0WhqrplSev1hjTVOuqL_g7BmTXURVEE/edit#gid=0

    Added by WJC
     

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  3. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brev. Brig. Gen'l Forum Host Retired Moderator

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    Some of the black confederates in question.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l Member of the Year

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    What is Mr. Newson's evidence that there were 65,000 black Confederates and how many of them saw the elephant out of that number according to his evidence?
     
  5. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brev. Brig. Gen'l Forum Host Retired Moderator

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    The OP is of the form since no one can prove Mr. Newson wrong, then his assertion is unchallenged.
     
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  6. Carronade

    Carronade 1st Lieutenant

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    Indeed, no evidence has even been submitted that Mr. Newson claimed that.

    All we have, anywhere in the forums, is Mint Julep's assertion that Mr. Newson asserted that there were 65,000 black Confederates and provided citations to that effect.

    To even begin to consider this, we would need something like "Gregory G. Newson, in his book XXXXXXX......" or "....in this YouTube video....."
     
  7. HarlechMan

    HarlechMan Private Trivia Game Winner

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    Newson wrote it in the Gettysburg Times.
     
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  8. Carronade

    Carronade 1st Lieutenant

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    Thanks, that's a start. Unfortunately it appears that one has to buy a subscription to check this out any further. Hopefully there is something in the public domain.
     
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  9. rpkennedy

    rpkennedy Major

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    For me, the article is behind a pay wall.

    Ryan
     
  10. Andersonh1

    Andersonh1 Captain

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    Mr. Newson's booth at Gettysburg:

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. rpkennedy

    rpkennedy Major

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    Oh lord. Well, I know what to think of his argument.

    Ryan
     
  12. thomas aagaard

    thomas aagaard 2nd Lieutenant

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    When a person is not willing to accept very very basic rules about how historical work is done and how it is debated. Then he is of no use on a serious forum like this.

    You prove a positive, not a negative.
     
  13. Carronade

    Carronade 1st Lieutenant

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    Hey, it's on a banner, gotta be true, right? :wink:

    We've progressed to a photo of a table with books on it. Perhaps by the next time I check in here we'll have some actual historical citations.
     
  14. HarlechMan

    HarlechMan Private Trivia Game Winner

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    Here's the original source of the 65,000 claim. This figure is based upon upon the assumption that the Steiner's report on Jackson's troops at Frederick was representative of all CS units (not exactly the best evidence IMO). That report has been extensively discussed in other threads on this forum.
     
  15. cash

    cash Brev. Brig. Gen'l

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    Steiner saw slaves brought with Jackson and his men, not black confederates.

    Edited; language
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2018
  16. thomas aagaard

    thomas aagaard 2nd Lieutenant

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    written by someone who clearly don't know how to do basic historical work.

    We have a report from one person. Who make a judgement that is not supported by anyone else and that can have a number of other interpretations.

    Then this number is used to argue that this was the case in the entire CSA military.

    Anyone who had 5 minutes of instruction in historical method would tell you that you can't use a single source in this way.
     
  17. wausaubob

    wausaubob Captain

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    Mr. Newsom is not an eye witness to the events he claims occurred. Instead his claim is based on a mathematical projection of someone else's flawed account. To the people who want to believe him, that is sufficient. Others are skeptical that there was not a 19th century account which established the existence of black army units.
    The problem with this assertion is that it is directly contradicted by other efforts to bar blacks and even creoles from Confederate military service until March of 1865.
    Since none of us saw that what Newsom claims did not exist, we can only rely on other evidence which demonstrates the Confederate government engaged in substantial efforts to prevent what Newsom claimed happened.
     
  18. Mint Julep

    Mint Julep Corporal

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    Is Mr Newsom on this forum?
     
  19. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brev. Brig. Gen'l Forum Host Retired Moderator

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    You are.
     
  20. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l Member of the Year

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    More importantly, Mr. Newson's (not Newsom's) evidence he bases his claims on are not on this forum.
     
  21. Mint Julep

    Mint Julep Corporal

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    So you've read his book also?
     
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