Is Capt. Francis Tull, Missouri Artillery the same person as Capt. Francis Tull, Mississippi Artillery?

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WCHT

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A thread on this forum three years ago (Was Kelly's Missouri Battery disbanded in May '62?*) touches on Tull's Missouri Battery. My question is, who is this Captain Francis Tull in Missouri? When and where was he born; where is he buried, and how do we know his middle name? How can we access the service records of Tull's Missouri Battery?

I’m trying to track down the complete service record of CAPT. FRANCIS S. TULL (1838-1917), a native of Pennsylvania, who is buried in Houston, Texas and has a 28-page Confederate pension file (at Ancestry), in which he claims to have enlisted on 7 Feb 1861 at Vicksburg, MS as Captain of the VICKSBURG LIGHT ARTILLERY, and been paroled at Monroe, LA in June 1865. His CSR in the Vicksburg Light Artillery confirms his service there from 10 Apr 1861 to 14 Jul 1861, when he resigned his commission (no reason given), but no later service records of FRANCIS S. TULL have been found in the NARA collection at Fold3. The 1st Lt of Vicksburg Light Artillery stated in Tull’s pension application that after Jul-Aug 1861 he did not see Tull again until after the war. There are two references in the pension file to Tull being at the Battle of Pea Ridge, AR, 7-8 Mar 1862 – he says he was wounded there, and one witness says he saw Tull on the field at that time, and saw him with his artillery battery a few days after the battle. Wikipedia** shows a detailed order of battle for Pea Ridge, including a “CPT FRANCIS M TULL, TULL'S MISSOURI BATTERY,” as part of the Missouri State Guard, under Maj Gen Sterling Price. But Sifakis says the commander of Tull's Missouri Battery is “CAPT FRANCIS S TULL.” The same 1st Lt also stated that Tull “then went to the service in Missouri I am informed in the Nitre and Mining Bureau.” This statement is supported by documents in a 13-page Confederate Citizens file at Fold3, which show that FRANCIS S TULL was paid $4 a day from 13 Nov 1862 to 31 Mar 1863 for “Services rendered the C. S. Nitre & Mining Bureau as Agent.” The signatures on the Mining Bureau documents at Little Rock, AR match those on the Vicksburg Light Artillery documents. The three service periods – Apr-Jul 1861, Mar 1862, and Nov 1862-Mar 1863 – are far enough apart that they could all belong to one person. But if that is the case, we need to learn why the commander of the Missouri battery is reported with “M” as a middle initial. Or, to prove that there are two Francis Tulls who commanded artillery batteries in states that sound a lot alike, we need to find the Missouri Tull in other records such as census and burial. Any illumination would be most gratefully received.

* https://civilwartalk.com/threads/was-kellys-missouri-battery-disbanded-in-may-62.123019/
**
 

BDK1066

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Just a couple of remarks.

Your Tull does not seem to appear in the 1860 Census anywhere in Mississippi or anywhere in Missouri (or indeed, anywhere in the U.S.)
While it is not unheard of for a person to not be found in a census, it is frustrating in this case. Census data might help answer your question. Perhaps someone can find him lurking in their somewhere.

Secondly, it should be remembered that in 1860, both states could, and often are, abbreviated as
'Miss." This may not impact your research, but should be kept in mind, "just in case."

Happy Hunting
 
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I have looked for Tull's CMSR in both states and did not find either. Am I doing something wrong?

Also, can you state the names of any other men in the Vicksburg Light Artillery and give another name for this unit?

Is this the same unit as the Warren Light Artillery?
 

archieclement

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In Chicago for medical reasons, when I get home I'll check my MSG source for Tulls batt
 

WCHT

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Just a couple of remarks.

Your Tull does not seem to appear in the 1860 Census anywhere in Mississippi or anywhere in Missouri (or indeed, anywhere in the U.S.) While it is not unheard of for a person to not be found in a census, it is frustrating in this case. Census data might help answer your question. Perhaps someone can find him lurking in their somewhere. Secondly, it should be remembered that in 1860, both states could, and often are, abbreviated as 'Miss." This may not impact your research, but should be kept in mind, "just in case."

Happy Hunting
Thanks for your quick response. Frank S Tull is in Vicksburg, MS in 1860, but I need to know if there is also a Frank M Tull in MO.
I have not found him or his parents, Frank S Tull (b. England) and Marie Shalom Tull (b. France), in 1850 or 1840.
1850. NOT Francis A Tull, of Germantown, Philadelphia, PA (1834-1862) https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/60624552/francis-a-tull

1860. Vicksburg, Warren, Mississippi (M653-592- 997). Frank Tiel 24 PA Machinist with family of John Brown 37 VA Machinist
1870. 4th Ward, Houston, Harris, Texas. "Frank S Tull M 33 PA Boss Carpenter Mary Tull F 24 TN Frank Tull M 3 MS
1880. 81 Preston Street, Houston, Harris, Texas (T9-1308-4D). Frank S. Tull 43 PA mechanic wife Mary E. Tull 32 TN son Frank L. Tull 13 MS son James Tull 7 TX dau Nora Tull 2 TX
1900. Ward 1, Galveston, Galveston, Texas. "Frank S Tull Head M 64 Jan 1836 PA-Eng-Fra Mechanical Engineer mar 34 yr Mary E Tull Wife F 54 Oct 1845 TN mar 34 yr 8/3 children Nora D Tull Dau F 22 Nov 1877 Texas
1910. Houston Ward 5, Harris, Texas "Victor Vanden Head M 28 LA Nora B Vanden Wife F 32 TX Mary L Vanden Dau F 6 TX Pearl L Vanden Dau F 4 TX Frank S Tull Fa-in-law M 75 PA Mary E Tull Mo-in-law F 64 TN Frank L Tull Bro-in-law M 4 2 MS

I'm brand-new to this site. Should I post my three full pages of research on him and his service as an attached file?
 

WCHT

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I have looked for Tull's CMSR in both states and did not find either. Am I doing something wrong?

Also, can you state the names of any other men in the Vicksburg Light Artillery and give another name for this unit?

Is this the same unit as the Warren Light Artillery?
Thanks for looking. The Vicksburg Light Artillery is filed under Georgia as Co I, 36th (Villepigue's) Infantry. It has several other names: Capt. Francis S. Tull’s Light Artillery Co, Capt. Isaac N. Edwards’ Light Artillery, Georgia and Mississippi Regiment, 36th Georgia Regiment, and 1st Confederate Infantry. I don't think that Warren Light Artillery is the same company, but perhaps some of the men served in both. Tull also has one document filed under Miscellaneous, dated 24 Apr 1861 at Warrington, FL.

Others in the unit are 1st Lt John W Bell, who was one of the pension witnesses, and Capt Isaac N Edwards, who was elected to replace Tull. Neither has service in that unit after the end of Feb 1862, although Edwards was paid on 29 Mar 1862 for the month of Feb 1862 (last card in his file).

I think I know quite a bit about Francis S Tull of Mississippi -- it might not all be correct, but we have lots of data on him. But I am totally in the dark about this Francis M Tull in Missouri. Would really like to hear from someone who is an expert on the Missouri State Guard and the Battle of Pea Ridge. What documents support the identification of him as Capt Francis M Tull and why does Sifakis call him Capt Francis S Tull?
 

96Ohio

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I have to dash off but couldn't resist a quick check. Found his Confederate Pension Application. This is page one, but I'm pushed for time and downloading many more pages.

31865_B020643-00172.jpg
 

WCHT

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Thanks for your help. I do have that entire 28-page pension file at Ancestry. The witness statements are quite detailed. It even includes a photo of him in uniform and a photo taken in the cemetery at his burial.

I now have a four-page summary (in 9-pt type) of what we know about Francis S Tull of Mississippi and Texas. I'm trying to figure out whether Francis M Tull of Missouri is the same person -- I have as yet seen no primary documents for Francis M Tull of Missouri. I'd also like to find the parole in Monroe, LA that he mentions in the pension app. The AG found nothing to support what he says on this page. which is why it took 19 months and numerous affidavits for his pension to be approved.

Here are several more tidbits that I just discovered about Francis S Tull, written by a great-grandson.
http://history-sites.com/cgi-bin/bbs62x/mscwmb/webbbs_config.pl?md=read;id=20865
This text says that Tull remained in Galveston from shortly after the war until after the 1900 Storm. However, he was in Houston from at least 1870 to 1880, according to censuses and city directories. His wife and one son appear in the Houston directory in 1887. They are all back in Houston by the 1902 city directory. One of the subsequent replies cites the only place that Francis S Tull appears in the Official Records (which have zero mention of Francis M Tull).
 

WCHT

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FamilySearch has recently posted (or updated) the "United States Confederate Officers Card Index, 1861-1865," FamilySearch database with images, from Military Order of the Stars and Bars, Springfield, Tennessee, 3 May 2019. The 3x5 cards are handwritten, likely in pencil. FamilySearch does not say when the collection was prepared or what sources were used. There are three adjacent cards that appear to relate to Capt. Francis S. Tull (and perhaps, some alter egos). They are transcribed below (the parenthetical comments are on the cards).

(1) "Tull, Francis S. Mississippi (Georgia) Capt., Vicksburg Btry, Miss. Light Arty From Feb 9 1861 (PACS April 20, 1861) Resigned July 1861 Co. became Co. I, 36th (Villepigue's) Ga. Inf. Reg.; 1st Co. I, 1st Conf. Inf. Reg. (Maybe Tull, Francis M., q.v.) "
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9Z5-3NT9), Thr-Tur > image 2631 of 3152

(2) "Tull, Francis M. Missouri Capt., Rifle Btry, Arty Bn., 3rd Div., Mo. State Guard, from Dec 1861 (in SPL, p. 133) Resigned March 25, 1862 (probably Tull, J. E., q.v.) (maybe Tull, Francis M., q.v.) "
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99Z5-3JH1), Thr-Tur > image 2629 of 3152

(3) "Tull, J. E. Missouri Capt., Arty Btry, 3rd Div.?, Mo. State Guard (secondary source, newsprint) (probably Tull, Francis M., q.v.)" (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89Z5-3KJH), Thr-Tur > image 2633 of 3152

I am becoming more convinced that there is only one Capt. Francis Tull who commanded two short-lived artillery batteries in different states. I'm still hoping to find copies of original source documents with the name Francis M. Tull (and now, J. E. Tull) to determine whether or not there is a second (or third!) Capt. Francis Tull.
 

archieclement

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FamilySearch has recently posted (or updated) the "United States Confederate Officers Card Index, 1861-1865," FamilySearch database with images, from Military Order of the Stars and Bars, Springfield, Tennessee, 3 May 2019. The 3x5 cards are handwritten, likely in pencil. FamilySearch does not say when the collection was prepared or what sources were used. There are three adjacent cards that appear to relate to Capt. Francis S. Tull (and perhaps, some alter egos). They are transcribed below (the parenthetical comments are on the cards).

(1) "Tull, Francis S. Mississippi (Georgia) Capt., Vicksburg Btry, Miss. Light Arty From Feb 9 1861 (PACS April 20, 1861) Resigned July 1861 Co. became Co. I, 36th (Villepigue's) Ga. Inf. Reg.; 1st Co. I, 1st Conf. Inf. Reg. (Maybe Tull, Francis M., q.v.) "
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9Z5-3NT9), Thr-Tur > image 2631 of 3152

(2) "Tull, Francis M. Missouri Capt., Rifle Btry, Arty Bn., 3rd Div., Mo. State Guard, from Dec 1861 (in SPL, p. 133) Resigned March 25, 1862 (probably Tull, J. E., q.v.) (maybe Tull, Francis M., q.v.) "
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99Z5-3JH1), Thr-Tur > image 2629 of 3152

(3) "Tull, J. E. Missouri Capt., Arty Btry, 3rd Div.?, Mo. State Guard (secondary source, newsprint) (probably Tull, Francis M., q.v.)" (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89Z5-3KJH), Thr-Tur > image 2633 of 3152

I am becoming more convinced that there is only one Capt. Francis Tull who commanded two short-lived artillery batteries in different states. I'm still hoping to find copies of original source documents with the name Francis M. Tull (and now, J. E. Tull) to determine whether or not there is a second (or third!) Capt. Francis Tull.
My source has Tulls Battery 3rd div MSG commanded by Francis S Tull. Organized Dec 61-Feb 62. Served at Elkhorn Tavern. Almost immediately converted to CSA service after the battle. Equipped with 4 guns apparently rifled in Jan 62. Often confused in the OR and other sources with Capt Teels Texas Light Art Batt. eventually consolidated with Bledsoes battery after going east of river.

Francis S Tull resigned MSG Mar 25th 1862 per Prices Orderly book
 
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WCHT

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Thank you! That pretty much confirms my suspicions. How shall I cite the source of this information? Are there CSR-like documents for the MSG that we can get copies of? In particular, is there personal information about each man, such a record of Tull being wounded at Pea Ridge, as he said in his pension application 46 years later (Jan 1908)? Can you shed any light on the Francis M Tull and J E Tull that are reported commanding the same battery? What documents do those names come from? The National Park Service seems to think his name is Francis M. Tull. I’ll try contacting them.

Thanks for the tip about Capt Teel’s Texas Light Artillery Battery, aka Second Texas Field Battery. Luckily, he is Capt. Trevanion T. Teel, so the units may be mistaken for one another, but I don’t think the officers will be easily confused.
 

archieclement

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I used sterling prices lieutenants which cites Prices orderly book

They wrote so stylized back then initials and names are often confused
 
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WCHT

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That’s “Sterling Price's Lieutenants: A Guide to the Officers and Organization of the Missouri State Guard 1861-1865,” by Richard C. Peterson, James E. McGhee, et al, 1995? The same author (McGhee) also seems to have him as Captain Francis M. Tull, which might be where NPS found the name.

"A History of Bledsoe's Missouri Battery … The following history of the battery is from “Guide to Missouri Confederate Units, 1861-1865,” by James E. McGhee, slightly edited: … The battery transferred to Confederate service about April 21 at Memphis, at which time the artillerymen of Captain Francis M. Tull's Missouri State Guard battery joined the company."
https://civilwartalk.com/threads/a-history-of-bledsoes-missouri-battery.127595/

I see that Bledsoe's Confederate unit has service records at NARA/Fold3, but they don't begin until April 1862 -- after Tull's resignation. Bledsoe also has a CSR in the MSG at Fold3 going back to Dec 1861, but Tull does not -- unless I haven't been creative enough with misspelling.

Thanks for your help!
 

WCHT

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The MOS&B card index says, "Tull, Francis M. Missouri Capt., Rifle Btry, Arty Bn., 3rd Div., Mo. State Guard, from Dec 1861 (in SPL, p. 133) Resigned March 25, 1862 (probably Tull, J. E., q.v.) (maybe Tull, Francis S., q.v.) "

Which page of SPL says "Tulls Battery 3rd div MSG commanded by Francis S Tull," please? Is J. E. Tull also in this resource? I just checked WorldCat -- the McGhee books are mostly not in Texas libraries. I can try requesting them through ILL.
 
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