Davis Longstreet Golden Thread Interview: Longstreet says the trouble with Jeff Davis was "his meddling with military affairs"

Okay my German is rather rusty--to put it mildly :D--but I think I see what you mean! It seems like on the German chart, cousin, cousin 2 grades, cousin 3 grades does correspond with American 1st cousin, 2nd cousin, and 3rd cousin. Looks like the difference is for cousins' children. It becomes niece/nephew rather than cousins removed. Am I reading that right? :smile: I think some Americans do something similar informally. For years, I was confused about how my Cousin Eddie could be my dad's cousin and my cousin and be about 20 years older than me before I figured out he was my first cousin once removed, but because of the age difference, it was usually easier to think of him as an uncle and his kids as cousins.
Not only niece/nephew but aunt/uncle too for the cousin's parents/grandparents/etc. Though when they start adding different grades it's getting confusing for me once again. lol I honestly think that a family with cousins removed/graded is just too big. :wink: :D

This says Charles Augustus Lafayette Lamar's father was first cousins with Lucius QC Lamar. I'm not 100% sure how exactly that traces back, but my main takeaway is his father had the truly spectacular name of Gazaway Bugg Lamar.
And I always thought the wilder names were a modern thingy! :roflmao: I recently read something about a Confederate being named States Rights [family name] because the father wanted to express his political views with his son's name.
 
Not only niece/nephew but aunt/uncle too for the cousin's parents/grandparents/etc. Though when they start adding different grades it's getting confusing for me once again. lol I honestly think that a family with cousins removed/graded is just too big. :wink: :D


And I always thought the wilder names were a modern thingy! :roflmao: I recently read something about a Confederate being named States Rights [family name] because the father wanted to express his political views with his son's name.
:D

When I was reading more about the cousin thing this morning, I came across an online article that was blaming royalty for the fixation on grades/removals of cousins.

So, maybe a good rule of thumb is if your cousin doesn't have an army to loan you or a strategic alliance to offer you, you don't need to worry whether you're a second cousin once removed or a third cousin. :angel:
 
Last edited:
View attachment 212736
"The trouble with Mr. Davis was his meddling with military affairs: his vanity made him believe that he was a great military genius;".
I've seen this accusation before but it always comes from enemies in politics and war. Where did Davis say or indicate in writings or speeches that he was a "great military genius?" Lee never made such an accusation.​
 
Where did Davis say or indicate in writings or speeches that he was a "great military genius?" Lee never made such an accusation.
Few actually publicly claim superiority: it is generally seen as poor etiquette. So it is not surprising that Davis never specifically claimed to be a "great military genius". It is also not surprising that Lee never criticized Davis publicly: he did not publicly criticize any of his rebel colleagues.
The claim by Longstreet and others is based on Davis' actions as president. They are personal opinions of contemporaries and colleagues, and by many historians.
 
Few actually publicly claim superiority: it is generally seen as poor etiquette. So it is not surprising that Davis never specifically claimed to be a "great military genius". It is also not surprising that Lee never criticized Davis publicly: he did not publicly criticize any of his rebel colleagues.
The claim by Longstreet and others is based on Davis' actions as president. They are personal opinions of contemporaries and colleagues, and by many historians.
I sure would not believe one word of Longstreet. But if it fits a biased northern slant so be it. They wrote the books!
 
The editor of the Richmond Examiner once wrote that the president “has alienated the hearts of the people by his stubborn follies” and “chronic hallucinations that he is a great military genius.”

General Grant also rendered a similar opinion in his memoir:

"Longstreet was an entirely different man. He was brave, honest, intelligent, a very capable soldier, subordinate to his superiors, just and kind to his subordinates, but jealous of his own rights, which he had the courage to maintain. He was never on the lookout to detect a slight, but saw one as soon as anybody when intentionally given.

It may be that Longstreet was not sent to Knoxville for the reason stated, but because Mr. Davis had an exalted opinion of his own military genius, and thought he saw a chance of "killing two birds with one stone." On several occasions during the war he came to the relief of the Union army by means of his superior military genius
."

I'm not sure Davis ever referred to himself as a "great military genius" @19thGeorgia, but he sure convinced a lot of folks (not just General Longstreet) that he thought he was.
 
The editor of the Richmond Examiner once wrote that the president “has alienated the hearts of the people by his stubborn follies” and “chronic hallucinations that he is a great military genius.”

General Grant also rendered a similar opinion in his memoir:

"Longstreet was an entirely different man. He was brave, honest, intelligent, a very capable soldier, subordinate to his superiors, just and kind to his subordinates, but jealous of his own rights, which he had the courage to maintain. He was never on the lookout to detect a slight, but saw one as soon as anybody when intentionally given.

It may be that Longstreet was not sent to Knoxville for the reason stated, but because Mr. Davis had an exalted opinion of his own military genius, and thought he saw a chance of "killing two birds with one stone." On several occasions during the war he came to the relief of the Union army by means of his superior military genius
."

I'm not sure Davis ever referred to himself as a "great military genius" @19thGeorgia, but he sure convinced a lot of folks (not just General Longstreet) that he thought he was.
Longstreet after the war was a sad description of what all those boys did for him and their Country.
He lies in his Memoirs and belittles what he fought for those that fought for him.

He wasn't too brave at Gettysburg. He was scared to make the Charge order to his army. IF, he had done what he normally should have done there, General Lee's plan may have worked. But because of this behavior, surely history didn't work in his favor.
 
He wasn't too brave at Gettysburg

Come on now. Surely you don't think it's fair to characterize General Longstreet as not being brave. I don't even think Early ever accused him of that. :giggle:

"It always comes from enemies in politics and war"

True. As I said, I'm not sure Davis ever referred to himself as a "great military genius," but he sure convinced a lot of folks (not just General Longstreet) that he thought he was. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, maybe it thinks it's a duck.
 
Come on now. Surely you don't think it's fair to characterize General Longstreet as not being brave. I don't even think Early ever accused him of that. :giggle:



True. As I said, I'm not sure Davis ever referred to himself as a "great military genius," but he sure convinced a lot of folks (not just General Longstreet) that he thought he was. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, maybe it thinks it's a duck.
Show some sources other than Newspapers and blogs.
 
Show some sources other than Newspapers and blogs.
Ill see if I can find some for you Reb. Ive got some letters and diaries from men in Longstreet's corps who certainly thought he was brave. Give me some time to locate them and Ill post up some excerpts. Now about people thinking Davis thought of himself as a military genius.....Im not sure I have anything like that. But I'll post up whatever I can find.
 
Ill see if I can find some for you Reb. Ive got some letters and diaries from men in Longstreet's corps who certainly thought he was brave. Give me some time to locate them and Ill post up some excerpts. Now about people thinking Davis thought of himself as a military genius.....Im not sure I have anything like that. But I'll post up whatever I can find.
Except those I have already posted, News Papers and blogs.
 
Ive got some letters and diaries from men in Longstreet's corps who certainly thought he was brave.

You're wonderful Laura, but that case should be closed even for our friend @Rebforever. It's common knowledge that Longstreet participated in several significant battles during the Mexican-American War and was repeatedly cited for bravery.
 
You're wonderful Laura, but that case should be closed even for our friend @Rebforever. It's common knowledge that Longstreet participated in several significant battles during the Mexican-American War and was repeatedly cited for bravery.
I don't know. I haven't read anything about him in Mexico. Don't really care to.
 
He wasn't too brave at Gettysburg.
As promised, here are a few I found in a quick search of period documents.

Describing the behavior of General Longstreet at Gettysburg, Captain Lemon had this to say:
General McLaws and Longstreet had ridden, to our surprise, most recklessly out ahead of our advancing brigade, but had determined it necessary in order to see our proper line of advance....We double-quicked through our guns, which ceased their fire to allow our passage, and when doing so the gunners removed their hats and cheered us gaily.....When almost to the Emmittsburg Road, we reached and passed Gen'ls Longstreet and McLaws, who had wisely halted and allowed us to pass by. We greeted them with a cheer, to which both Gen'ls doffed their hats in salute. Longstreet called out, "Cheer less boys and fight more. Your work is up ahead - give them the steel!" Our feelings slightly injured at this mild rebuke, and heedless of his advice we nevertheless answered with yet another cheer. We soon reached an dcrossed the Emmitsburg Road and entered the large grove of peach trees...... ~ Capt. James Lile Lemon, Co A, 18th Georgia Infantry, Wofford's Brigade, McLaws Division, Longstreet's Corps
And this one from a letter sent to the Richmond Enquirer by a soldier in Wofford's brigade --probably someone in the 3rd Battalion GA Sharpshooters.

Wofford’s Georgia Brigade.
To the editors of the Enquirer:
CULPEPPER CO., VA., 25th July, 1863.

.....Generals Longstreet and McLaws who were on the field throughout the action, perceiving that this stronghold – the mountain side, steep and very rugged – could be carried only at a heavy sacrifice of men and Barksdale having obliqued so far to the left as to leave a long interval through which a flank movement was being made against Wofford’s left, Gen Longstreet ordered him to withdraw and fall back to the Emmettsburg [sic] Road. The brigade retired in good order. The flanking party fired a volley into the left, now become right, but with little visible effect. Such is a “plain, unvarnished” and imperfect account of the action of Wofford’s brigade in the fierce and sanguinary conflict of the 2d July at Gettysburg....

Not at Gettysburg, but a diary entry of Robert P Myers, Surgeon, 16th Georgia Infantry
(23 Sept 1863 near Chattanooga)
Wednesday 23rd -- At 2 oc P.M. the enemy commenced to shell us and kept it up until dark, our sharp shooters still in front. Genl Longstreet has just pass’d and gone to the front.

And this one. While it doesn't say Gen Longstreet is 'brave' I cant imagine his men would have cheered his return if he was perceived as a coward?
"Gen. Lee seems delighted to have him [Longstreet] back again, but he can not possibly be more pleased than the old 1st Corps is at his return to their commander...When the men saw him coming, they mounted the breastworks and while he rode down the lines made the welkin ring with cheers for the 'old bull of the woods,' as they love to designate him. It is gratifying to Genl. L. to know that though he is not favorite with the President & Bragg, yet he has what is much better, the unbounded confidence of Genl. Lee and the officers and troops of his command."
-T.J. Goree in a letter to his sister, October 1864 regarding Longstreet's return October 19, 1864 after recovering from the wound suffered at the Wilderness in May 1864.
 
It seems pretty obvious to me that no military genius would have left Bragg in charge for as long as Davis did, but perhaps the most representative and sweeping indictment of Jefferson Davis and his opinion of himself is by historian George M. Fredrickson in his collection of essays (not a newspaper or blog :smile:) entitled, Diverse Nations. Fredrickson said:

The Confederate president was a proud, remote, and quarrelsome man who fought constantly with his cabinet and replaced able men with second-class lackeys. He was tactless, uncompromising, and opinionated and acquired bitter enemies in Congress, among the Confederate governors, and among the most competent southern generals. He believed he was a military genius [emphasis mine] and interfered excessively with his generals, besides adhering rigidly to a policy of troop dispersal and departmentalization of command. Davis seemed to believe that the heavens would fall if the bureaucratic rules of a peacetime army were violated. Furthermore, he favored generals that he liked at the expense of better commanders who had offended him. Unlike Lincoln, he lost touch with the political situation, and he failed to provide leadership in the critical area of economic policy."

Another great source is Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln as War Presidents: Nothing Succeeds Like Success by Ludwell H. Johnson. This is not a newspaper or blog. :smile:

Once again if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, maybe - just maybe - it thinks it’s a duck. :giggle:
 
How’s this for bravery @Rebforever? At the battle of Chickamauga:

Longstreet's performance throughout the battle was magnificent. On more than one occasion he inspired the men under his command by his personal exertions, his positive words, and his calm and collected nature. After the battle General Deas was moved to report that "Longstreet is the boldest and bravest looking man I ever saw. I don't think he would dodge if a shell were to burst under his chin." At one point, Longstreet nearly proved Deas correct. Meeting Colonel Thomas Claiborne, temporarily attached to General Simon Bolivar Buckner's staff, a shell came screeching past. Claiborne ducked, to which Longstreet, stern faced and solid, laughingly commented, "I see you salute them," and then, "If there is a shell or bullet over there destined for us, it will find us." Longstreet did not budge.”

General John Breckinridge led the chorus of praise at Chickamauga, proclaiming, “Longstreet is the man, boys, Longstreet is the man.”

One officer in Tennessee called Longstreet “the boldest and bravest looking man I ever saw. I don’t think he would dodge if a shell were to burst under his chin.”

Moxley Sorrel said Longstreet was “that undismayed warrior. He was like a rock in steadiness when sometimes in battle the world seemed to be flying to pieces.” He also wrote that Longstreet’s tactician’s “eyes were everywhere” at Antietam, adding that his “conduct on this great day of battle was magnificent. He seemed everywhere along his extended lines, and his tenacity and deep-set solution, his inmost courage, which appeared to swell with the growing peril to the army, undoubtedly stimulated troops to great action, and held them in place despite all weakness.”



Sources:
Recollections of a Confederate Staff Officer by Gilbert Moxley Sorrel
Heroes of the American Reconstruction: Profiles of Sixteen Educators, Politicians and Activists by Stanley Turke
 
Back
Top