Davis Longstreet Golden Thread Interview: Longstreet says the trouble with Jeff Davis was "his meddling with military affairs"

Some time after the War Lafayette McLaws would state the following in an address titled "After Chickamauga" given before the Confederate Veterans Association of Savannah, Georgia:
"So it looks as if Gen. Longstreet's crucial test of the fitness of any one to command was his compliance or non-compliance with Longstreet's "suggestions." it was a sort of mania of his, and there can be no doubt that he was honest in that belief For it seemed to make no difference who it was he advised; if he followed his advice he was worthy, if he did not he was not worthy."​
It must be remembered that McLaws' friendly relationship with Longstreet was broken following the Knoxville Campaign and McLaws' removal from command of his division by Longstreet.

That being said I find there to be more than a little truth in the comment. Davis' antagonistic relationship with Joe Johnston whom Longstreet had considered a model general, refusal to remove Bragg for not following up the Confederate victory at Chickamauga and the reprimand Davis sent Longstreet following the McLaws / Law / Robertson command debacle following Knoxville surely contributed to Longstreet's opinion about Davis.
Interesting that Longstreet considered General Joe Johnston a model general. Johnston's win loss record just like Longstreet' s is less then spectacular.
Davis had every right to be less then pleased with the battle of Knoxville. After all they somehow managed to make General Burnside look like a genius.
Exactly how was Cobb supposed to magically lead the Confederacy to victory.
Leftyhunter
 
Some time after the War Lafayette McLaws would state the following in an address titled "After Chickamauga" given before the Confederate Veterans Association of Savannah, Georgia:
"So it looks as if Gen. Longstreet's crucial test of the fitness of any one to command was his compliance or non-compliance with Longstreet's "suggestions." it was a sort of mania of his, and there can be no doubt that he was honest in that belief For it seemed to make no difference who it was he advised; if he followed his advice he was worthy, if he did not he was not worthy."​
It must be remembered that McLaws' friendly relationship with Longstreet was broken following the Knoxville Campaign and McLaws' removal from command of his division by Longstreet.

That being said I find there to be more than a little truth in the comment. Davis' antagonistic relationship with Joe Johnston whom Longstreet had considered a model general, refusal to remove Bragg for not following up the Confederate victory at Chickamauga and the reprimand Davis sent Longstreet following the McLaws / Law / Robertson command debacle following Knoxville surely contributed to Longstreet's opinion about Davis.


The McLaws/Longstreet dynamic is very interesting to consider. McLaws was viewed as his protege until Chancellorsville, where Lee became very dissatisfied with McLaws performance and lack of aggression. Longstreet as instructed to watch him like a baby sitter after that, and Longstreet always resented it and held it against him. Knoxville was Longstreets way of trying to get rid of him once and for all. So of course McLaws will not have a high opinion of his former friend after the war.
 
Findagrave occasionally has a few gaps and errors. Howell Cobb had married a Lamar, who apparently was related to Lucius Q.C. Lamar II. And the later was married to the daughter of Augustus Baldwin Longstreet.
Ok. I hope I have this right. Inquiring minds want to know. :O o:
Mary Ann Lamar Cobb, the wife of Howell Cobb, was the daughter of Zachariah Lamar (1769-1838) whose father was Thomas Lamar (1746-1820).
Lucius Quintus Cincinatus Lamar, Jr was the son of LQC Lamar, Sr (1797-1834) who was the son of John Lamar, II. whose father was John Lamar whose brother was Thomas (above.)
So Lucius QC Lamar, Sr and Mary Ann Lamar Cobb had the same great grandfather, John Lamar, Sr.
LQC Lamar Jr. married A B Longstreet's daughter.
For those who prefer a visual representation:
i. John Lamar, Sr (1713-1785)
ii. John Lamar <brothers> Thomas
iii. John Lamar II <1st cousins> Zachariah
iv. Lucius QC Lamar <2nd cousins> Mary Ann Lamar Cobb m. Howell Cobb
v. Lucius QC Lamar, Jr * <2nd cousin once removed (?) to MAL Cobb>
*m. Virginia Lafayette Longstreet Lamar
 
Once you remove cousins you remove my ability to understand it.
Ditto! But @lelliott19 did a great job in trying to visualize the connection! :thumbsup:

This is the only way I can handle cousin removals:
https://isogg.org/wiki/Cousin#/media/File:CousinshipChart.jpg
Are Americans and Europeans removing cousins differently? I once found this graphic (sorry, it's in German; didn't find an English one) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verwandtschaftsbeziehung#/media/File:European_kinship_system_de.svg and consulted it several times since then to better understand family ties, but it seems it's not identical with your chart.

Either way, no matter how far removed cousins they are, if I'm not mistaken Longstreet and Cobb are not blood related, meaning they're related by just - to put it in Zella's granny's terms - outlaws. :wink: :D
 
Some time after the War Lafayette McLaws would state the following in an address titled "After Chickamauga" given before the Confederate Veterans Association of Savannah, Georgia:
"So it looks as if Gen. Longstreet's crucial test of the fitness of any one to command was his compliance or non-compliance with Longstreet's "suggestions." it was a sort of mania of his, and there can be no doubt that he was honest in that belief For it seemed to make no difference who it was he advised; if he followed his advice he was worthy, if he did not he was not worthy."​
It must be remembered that McLaws' friendly relationship with Longstreet was broken following the Knoxville Campaign and McLaws' removal from command of his division by Longstreet.

That being said I find there to be more than a little truth in the comment. Davis' antagonistic relationship with Joe Johnston whom Longstreet had considered a model general, refusal to remove Bragg for not following up the Confederate victory at Chickamauga and the reprimand Davis sent Longstreet following the McLaws / Law / Robertson command debacle following Knoxville surely contributed to Longstreet's opinion about Davis.

A curious remark, since a suggestion from a senior officer is tantamount to an order, and a subordinate is obliged to comply with it.
 
A curious remark, since a suggestion from a senior officer is tantamount to an order, and a subordinate is obliged to comply with it.
I agree with your statement, but think McLaws was saying that Longstreet's of view his superiors' fitness for command was determined by how they responded to Longstreet's suggestions.
 
Interesting that Longstreet considered General Joe Johnston a model general. Johnston's win loss record just like Longstreet' s is less then spectacular.
Davis had every right to be less then pleased with the battle of Knoxville. After all they somehow managed to make General Burnside look like a genius.
Exactly how was Cobb supposed to magically lead the Confederacy to victory.
Leftyhunter
My reading suggests Longstreet and Johnston established a friendly working relationship at Manassas during the winter of 1861 - 1862. In the aftermath of Seven Pines Johnston supported Longstreet and helped bail Longstreet out of a sticky situation regarding blame for the failure of the Confederate attack. (The two of them basically threw Benjamin Huger under the bus, but that's for another thread.)

I think its also worth noting Johnston's tactics during the Atlanta Campaign. Johnston would take a position and wait for Sherman to attack his lines. When Sherman failed to take the bait and flanked Johnston, he (Johnston) would retreat to try again. At no time while he held command did Johnston attack Sherman, though he did come close at Cassville. This closely fits Longstreet's ideas of how Lee should have fought Gettysburg by taking a position and wait for the Federals to attack.
 
Are Americans and Europeans removing cousins differently? I once found this graphic (sorry, it's in German; didn't find an English one) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verwandtschaftsbeziehung#/media/File:European_kinship_system_de.svg and consulted it several times since then to better understand family ties, but it seems it's not identical with your chart.
Okay my German is rather rusty--to put it mildly :D--but I think I see what you mean! It seems like on the German chart, cousin, cousin 2 grades, cousin 3 grades does correspond with American 1st cousin, 2nd cousin, and 3rd cousin. Looks like the difference is for cousins' children. It becomes niece/nephew rather than cousins removed. Am I reading that right? :smile: I think some Americans do something similar informally. For years, I was confused about how my Cousin Eddie could be my dad's cousin and my cousin and be about 20 years older than me before I figured out he was my first cousin once removed, but because of the age difference, it was usually easier to think of him as an uncle and his kids as cousins.

My grandmother just automatically demotes cousins to the next level rather than call them removed. :laugh: So, first cousin once removed becomes second cousins.

Either way, no matter how far removed cousins they are, if I'm not mistaken Longstreet and Cobb are not blood related, meaning they're related by just - to put it in Zella's granny's terms - outlaws. :wink: :D
It does look like they're outlaws. :roflmao:
 

[QUOTE="Zella, post: 1940783, member: 23686"]It does look like they're outlaws. :roflmao:[/QUOTE]
"Outlaws" or not, the Cobb and Lamar families retained very close ties. Mary Ann [I]Lamar[/I] Cobb's brother, John Basil Lamar, was volunteer aide-de-camp to Howell Cobb at South Mountain and Jefferson Mirabeau Lamar was Lt Col in command of "Cobb's Georgia Legion." Both were killed at Crampton's Gap, September 14, 1862.

[B]Lt Col Jefferson Mirabeau Lamar [/B]- the brother of Lucius QC Lamar (who was married to Virginia L Longstreet)
As the Union VI Corps advanced upon the position, Cobb's brigade was sent to reinforce Parham and Munford. The regiment of "Cobb's Legion" under the command of Lieut Col Jefferson M. Lamar took the lead, with the 16th Georgia in support. They proceeded down the mountain side and came upon Parham’s men retreating up the mountainside. Lamar immediately saw Union troops in pursuit and cried to his men to follow him in a counterattack against them. Lamar charged his horse forward but promptly realized the maneuver had been foolish due to the steep grade of the hillside (Whipp's ravine.) His horse fell and, Lamar, unfazed, jumped to his feet and continued leading his men. He put his men into position on the flank of the Union attacking column and unleashed volley after volley into their ranks. But it was already too late. Jefferson M. Lamar, held them to their impossible work until he had been twice shot, once mortally. Cobb's Legion was quickly surrounded and nearly annihilated by the New Jersey Brigade. Within twenty minutes the Legion suffered 72 percent casualties* many taken as prisoners of war. "[I]We should have been delighted if the Legion could have put forth its strength, before so many of them fell into the hands of the enemy.[/I]" (Southern Watchman, Oct. 8, 1862, page 2.)

[B]John Basil Lamar [/B]- Mary Ann Lamar Cobb's brother, Howell Cobb's friend and brother-in-law
As the troops of the Union VI Corps overran the hillside and the Confederate troops retreated up the mountain, Howell Cobb and John Basil Lamar waited at the top of the hill, desperately attempting to reorganize and rally the retreating soldiers. Two Federal soldiers crested the hill and saw the Confederate officer standing in the open, raised their muskets and fired at the same time. John Basil Lamar fell from his horse, shot in the chest, mortally wounded. Howell Cobb was uninjured.

Howell Cobb was reportedly so distraught over the death of his Brother-in-law, John Basil Lamar, his wife’s cousin, Jefferson Mirabeau Lamar, and the number of casualties his brigade suffered, that he was unable to take the field on Sept 17 for the Battle of Antietam.

* Timothy J Reese, [I]Sealed With Their Lives:The Battle for Crampton's Gap Burkittsville MD, [/I]Butternut and Blue, 1998.
 
Very interesting, @lelliott19!
I suppose I should have mentioned it sooner, but Howell Cobb was the original Colonel of the regiment I am working on.....he organized and commanded the 16th Georgia. :wavespin: So of all the things on the entire forum, this is something I actually know a little something about.....enough to have insight and opinions. :D
 
Another of Mary Ann Lamar Cobb's cousins (I'm not sure of the exact relationship) was Charles Augustus Lafayette Lamar. He is mostly noted for his involvement with the slave ship Wanderer. Charles Cobb enrolled as Lieutenant Colonel of the 6th Georgia early in the War, but lost his commission when the 6th was merged with another regiment. Late in the conflict he took a commission as a colonel on the staff of Major General Howell Cobb and was killed while serving in that capacity during the Battle of Columbus.
 
Another of Mary Ann Lamar Cobb's cousins (I'm not sure of the exact relationship) was Charles Augustus Lafayette Lamar. He is mostly noted for his involvement with the slave ship Wanderer. Charles Cobb enrolled as Lieutenant Colonel of the 6th Georgia early in the War, but lost his commission when the 6th was merged with another regiment. Late in the conflict he took a commission as a colonel on the staff of Major General Howell Cobb and was killed while serving in that capacity during the Battle of Columbus.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/40577432?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

This says Charles Augustus Lafayette Lamar's father was first cousins with Lucius QC Lamar. I'm not 100% sure how exactly that traces back, but my main takeaway is his father had the truly spectacular name of Gazaway Bugg Lamar.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26542376/gazaway-bugg-lamar
 
Jefferson Davis endeared himself with his memoir, “The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government,” in which he described his justifications for the Civil War. He compared Southern secession to the American Revolution. His Southern spirit inspired Southerners to revere him in ways they never did during his time as the Confederacy’s President. He became their champion of the Lost Cause.


Source: Strawbridge, Wilm K. “A Monument Better Than Marble: Jefferson Davis and the New South.” Journal of Mississippi History, December 2007, 325-47.
Davis' "rehabilitation" in the eyes of most Southerners began when he was imprisoned at Fortress Monroe for almost two years without ever being brought to trial for the treason he was accused of. They began to think of him as a martyr to The Cause which was probably at least part of the reason he was finally released.
 
He didn't like anyone but himself. :frown:
Obviously and unfortunately not really true - although he was a control freak in modern terminology, he liked and trusted subordinates like Lee, Bragg, and Hood who tended to agree with him.
 
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