If the "War" Wasn't About Slavery?

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lurid

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Jan 3, 2019
I confess that the whole Black Confederate propaganda campaign on the part of the SCV has baffled me from the start. As you well know, the profoundly racist reasons given for secession is, in a modern context, impossible to justify. Any of the grand slaveholding masters would be arrested for serial sex abuse, incest & child molestation, today. Personally, I came to grips with my slaveholding family & the inevitable slave offspring that I am related to a long time ago. Learning about that has been a zillion times more interesting than torturing the historical record to support a made up proposition could ever be. What is really sad is that the SCV claims to be honoring Southern history by rewriting it to suit a modern sensibility. It is so futile & so limiting.
My point is that there are members on this site who are adamant about their hatred towards northerners and have no qualms about expressing it electronically. I find that strange to the point of consternation considering northern ingenuity, know-how and initiative built this country into a superpower, the west contributed some, but the south very little.

It appears, there's some jealousy that reaches the threshold of envy that has some of these people displacing their anger that's backed by old-fashioned jealousy. My point is that personal computers and the internet were invented by north and west coast people and this is the vehicle that are used to bash northerners. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, everything from technology, communication, transportation and everything else in modernity was initiated by the north. But they hate northerners, but use all the benefits that was provided by the north. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

They should denounce everything affiliated with the north, which would lead them back to serfdom. What exactly did the Confederacy leave them other than a legacy of abject poverty and a stigma that I wouldn't wish on a mangy dog? I just don't get that warped philosophy of life.

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Rebforever

Lt. Colonel
Joined
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My point is that there are members on this site who are adamant about their hatred towards northerners and have no qualms about expressing it electronically. I find that strange to the point of consternation considering northern ingenuity, know-how and initiative built this country into a superpower, the west contributed some, but the south very little.

It appears, there's some jealousy that reaches the threshold of envy that has some of these people displacing their anger that's backed by old-fashioned jealousy. My point is that personal computers and the internet were invented by north and west coast people and this is the vehicle that these yahoos use to bash northerners. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, everything from technology, communication, transportation and everything else in modernity was initiated by the north. But they hate northerners, but use all the benefits that was provided by the north. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

They should denounce everything affiliated with the north, which would lead them back to serfdom. What exactly did the Confederacy leave them other than a legacy of abject poverty and a stigma that I wouldn't wish on a mangy dog? I just don't get that warped philosophy of life.
Then if you don’t like what you are reading why are you still here? You are not going to change my mind on how I feel about some Northerners. And your second paragraph would be on the top of the list.
 
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Rhea Cole

First Sergeant
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Murfreesboro, Tennessee
My point is that there are members on this site who are adamant about their hatred towards northerners and have no qualms about expressing it electronically. I find that strange to the point of consternation considering northern ingenuity, know-how and initiative built this country into a superpower, the west contributed some, but the south very little.

It appears, there's some jealousy that reaches the threshold of envy that has some of these people displacing their anger that's backed by old-fashioned jealousy. My point is that personal computers and the internet were invented by north and west coast people and this is the vehicle that these yahoos use to bash northerners. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, everything from technology, communication, transportation and everything else in modernity was initiated by the north. But they hate northerners, but use all the benefits that was provided by the north. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

They should denounce everything affiliated with the north, which would lead them back to serfdom. What exactly did the Confederacy leave them other than a legacy of abject poverty and a stigma that I wouldn't wish on a mangy dog? I just don't get that warped philosophy of life.
I am a little too long in the tooth to worry a whole lot about what other people think. Socrates said it perfectly, the first step on the road to wisdom is to know that you don't know. Why do people everywhere cling to counterfactual beliefs? Beats me, I have had to unlearn about half of what I thought I knew along the way. As far as I am concerned, that is what makes life interesting.
 
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leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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los angeles ca
On another note, don't you all think it is strange how some people in this modern age log onto to the internet and defend the Confederacy?
Not strange at all. People die but political ideas live forever although their popularity may vary greatly over the years.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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I am a little too long in the tooth to worry a whole lot about what other people think. Socrates said it perfectly, the first step on the road to wisdom is to know that you don't know. Why do people everywhere cling to counterfactual beliefs? Beats me, I have had to unlearn about half of what I thought I knew along the way. As far as I am concerned, that is what makes life interesting.
Probably because in the fight between reality and fantasy fantasy will win every time.
Leftyhunter
 
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leftyhunter

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The difference between fiction & history is that fiction has to make sense. Mark Twain & a whole lot of other folks.
Think of fantasy as the fun part of fiction. Fantasy absolutely makes sense. What narrative is going to appeal to white Southerners
1. There ancestors were coerced or were suckers who fought and died to ensure slavery or
2. The antebellum South was a multi racial wonderland with happy docile slaves and tens if not hundreds Of thousands of black Confederate troops and the South would be a wonderland up a paradise but for the Yankees.
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WJC

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I find that strange to the point of consternation considering northern ingenuity, know-how and initiative built this country into a superpower, the west contributed some, but the south very little.
It may be statements like this that generate "hatred towards northerners".
 
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jreb721

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nc
This is a question that will never be fully answered. Yes the articles of secession for all the states mentioned slavery. It is telling though that slaveholders were a minority and yet the people in those states voted to leave the Union. There must have been something else also. Lincoln said it was to restore the Union and when the Emancipation Proclamation came out a few Union regiments had a mutiny as they were fighting for the Union not to free the slaves. The South left the Union peacefully by the vote of their people. Lincoln was the one who called for 75,000 volunteers to force the South back in. We were founded on self determination to why should the South had been forced to stay when the people wanted to leave. EDITED - off topic and twentieth century references.
 
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unionblue

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This is a question that will never be fully answered.

No, history has answered that question, in full, and many, many times.

Yes the articles of secession for all the states mentioned slavery.

Then add in all the prewar debates and struggles over slavery. Then throw in all of the recordings in the journals of secession from each of those states that show slavery was the most discussed topic.

It is telling though that slaveholders were a minority and yet the people in those states voted to leave the Union. There must have been something else also.

They were a powerful minority, holding most of the political levers in every slaveholding state. And consider the $4 BILLION dollars in (1860 currency) that those nearly 4 million slaves were worth to the slaveholding economy. Then add the social order that slavery provided, to slave and nonslaveholders alike. Maybe this was the something also that every white in the region and at the time might have been so afraid to disrupt or change?

Lincoln said it was to restore the Union and when the Emancipation Proclamation came out a few Union regiments had a mutiny as they were fighting for the Union not to free the slaves.

A historical fact, there were racists in the North and in the Union army.

The South left the Union peacefully by the vote of their people.

Not correct at all. You should consider reading about all of the warlike acts committed by the various States, some made even before Lincoln was sworn in as President. Theft of property, the taking of US soldiers as prisoners of war, seizing money, mints, payrolls, ships, arms and forts. That's not peaceful. That's brazen aggression.

Lincoln was the one who called for 75,000 volunteers to force the South back in.

And did so after the newly formed Confederate States called for 100,000 new troops.

We were founded on self determination to why should the South had been forced to stay when the people wanted to leave.

Yet self-determination was the first thing violated by the slaveholding South, as it rejected the will of the people of the United States and the results of a free and fair election in 1860. That's not self-determination. That's arrogance.

As to the KKK it was founded to protect citizens when the occupation forces couldn't or wouldn't stop deprivations of carpet baggers and roving bands of freed slaves.

It was founded to reimpose slaveholding in all but name and to force anyone who wanted change was either killed or driven out.


The KKK was very popular all across the US in early 1900's through the 20's just look at their marches through several cities including Washington DC.

Yes, they reached peaks of power in their day, but did you ever read of Grant and his administration almost wiping them out after the war because of the terror and murder they committed in that time?

They turned into something entirely different than what was meant when they were formed.

No, they were already the terrorist they originally formed to be.
Unionblue
 
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lurid

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Then if you don’t like what you are reading why are you still here? You are not going to change my mind on how I feel about some Northerners. And your second paragraph would be on the top of the list.
edited - personal attack.

As for the OP, the war was totally about slavery from the Confederates standpoint. If you're not better than a slave who are you better than, therefore, they tried to sustain slavery to validate their self-worth.
 
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GwilymT

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Thread is temporarily closed for some cleaning. Any further personal attacks will result in threadbans and warning points.

***Posted as moderator***
 
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