If Lincoln was passing the Emancipation Proclamation why was he concerned with the price of slaves?

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#1
Page 290 Recollections of Abraham Lincoln

note 11. Page 235, Line 25, after the word God.

John W, Crisfield

When he was in the White house one day in July 1862, Mr. Lincoln said: " Well, Crisfield, how are you getting along with your report, have you written it yet?" Mr Crisfield replied that he had not. Mr. Lincoln knowing the Emancipation Proclamation was coming, in fact was only two months away - said,

:You better come up with an agreement. Nig@#%$ will never be higher."

Recollections of Abraham Lincoln, 1847-1865
By Ward Hill Lamon

http://books.google.com/books?id=eQ...A&ved=0CEsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=******s&f=false
 

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Pat Young

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#2
Page 290 Recollections of Abraham Lincoln

note 11. Page 235, Line 25, after the word God.

John W, Crisfield

When he was in the White house one day in July 1862, Mr. Lincoln said: " Well, Crisfield, how are you getting along with your report, have you written it yet?" Mr Crisfield replied that he had not. Mr. Lincoln knowing the Emancipation Proclamation was coming, in fact was only two months away - said,

:You better come up with an agreement. Nig@#%$ will never be higher."

Recollections of Abraham Lincoln, 1847-1865
By Ward Hill Lamon

http://books.google.com/books?id=eQ41EHEN0kIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Lamon lincoln&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cxUPUd3BFJGE9QTy-YCoBA&ved=0CEsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=******s&f=false
Whether he said it is another matter, but Crisfield lived in Maryland, I believe, and Maryland was not covered by the Emancipation Proclamation.
 
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#3
The passage explicitly refers to a proposal for gradual emancipation of slaves in border states and compensation to their owners:

John W. Crisfield served in Congress with Mr. Lincoln in 1847 and was a warm friend of Lincoln. Being elected again as Representative in 1861, he was in Congress when the proposition was made for gradual emancipation in the border states by paying the loyal owners for their slaves. Mr. Crisfield was on the committee that was to draft the reply to this proposition. When he was at the White House one day in July, 1862, Mr. Lincoln said: "Well, Crisfield, how are you getting along with your report, have you written it yet?" Mr. Crisfield replied that he had not. Mr. Lincoln— knowing that the Emancipation Proclamation was coming, in fact was then only two months away — said, "You had better come to an agreement. . . ."

The Emancipation Proclamation, of course, applied to those territories in active rebellion, not the border states. So the answer to your question, in large part, is right there in the the passage.
 
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jgoodguy

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#5
The passage explicitly refers to a proposal for gradual emancipation of slaves in border states and compensation to their owners:

John W. Crisfield served in Congress with Mr. Lincoln in 1847 and was a warm friend of Lincoln. Being elected again as Representative in 1861, he was in Congress when the proposition was made for gradual emancipation in the border states by paying the loyal owners for their slaves. Mr. Crisfield was on the committee that was to draft the reply to this proposition. When he was at the White House one day in July, 1862, Mr. Lincoln said: "Well, Crisfield, how are you getting along with your report, have you written it yet?" Mr. Crisfield replied that he had not. Mr. Lincoln— knowing that the Emancipation Proclamation was coming, in fact was then only two months away — said, "You had better come to an agreement. . . ."

The Emancipation Proclamation, of course, applied to those territories in active rebellion, not the border states. So the answer to your question, in large part, is right there in the the passage.
So Barrycdog's issue is that Lincoln passed on insider information?

Congress, war and the question of slavery
In 1861, Crisfield was elected as a Unionist to the Thirty-seventh Congress from the 1st Congressional district of Maryland, serving one term from March 4, 1861 until March 3, 1863.

Although Maryland remained loyal to the Union at the outbreak of the American Civil War, Maryland was divided on the question of slavery and the emancipation of Maryland slaves remained by no means a foregone conclusion. On December 16, 1861 a bill was presented to Congress to emancipate slaves in Washington D.C.,[1] and in March 1862 Lincoln held talks with Crisfield on the subject of emancipation.[1] Crisfield however argued that freedom would be worse for the slaves than slavery, especially in time of war, but such arguments could no longer hold back the abolitionist tide. In the summer of 1862 Congress passed the Second Confiscation Act, which permitted the Union army to enlist African-American soldiers, and barred the army from recapturing runaway slaves.[1] In July 1862 Lincoln offered to buy out Maryland slaveholders, offering $300 for each emancipated slave, but Crisfield rejected the offer.[1] In 1862 Congress passed the Emancipation Proclamation which declared all slaves in Southern states to be free, but Maryland, like other border states, was exempted since she had remained loyal to the Union at the outbreak of war. However, in 1863 and 1864 growing numbers of Maryland slaves simply left their plantations to join the Union Army, accepting the promise of military service in return for freedom.[1] One effect of this was to bring slave auctions to an end, as any slave could avoid sale by simply offering to join the army.[1] In 1863 Crisfield was defeated in local elections by the abolitionist candidate John Creswell, amid allegations of vote-rigging by the army.[1]

After being defeated at the polls, Crisfield resumed the practice of law.
 

James B White

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#6
Page 290 Recollections of Abraham Lincoln

note 11. Page 235, Line 25, after the word God.

John W, Crisfield

When he was in the White house one day in July 1862, Mr. Lincoln said: " Well, Crisfield, how are you getting along with your report, have you written it yet?" Mr Crisfield replied that he had not. Mr. Lincoln knowing the Emancipation Proclamation was coming, in fact was only two months away - said,

:You better come up with an agreement. Nig@#%$ will never be higher."

Recollections of Abraham Lincoln, 1847-1865
By Ward Hill Lamon

http://books.google.com/books?id=eQ41EHEN0kIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Lamon lincoln&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cxUPUd3BFJGE9QTy-YCoBA&ved=0CEsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=******s&f=false
You like that quote, huh? Here's a response I gave when you posted it before, in a somewhat different context:

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/black-mayor-joins-scv.85890/page-14#post-667144

Short version:

Well, yes, it's a myth that the Emancipation Proclamation would free all slaves, so Crisfield of Maryland had nothing to worry about in relation to that, since there wasn't a direct connection between the EP and compensated emancipation for Maryland.

I read it as Lincoln imitating what a slave trader might say to entice a plantation owner to sell, in reference to normal market conditions. Slave prices had been rising just before the war, and some owners were probably waiting to sell to see if prices might go even higher, so traders would need to encourage them with reassurance that there was no reason to wait for prices to rise further.

In this case, of course, Lincoln would be aware of the irony that he was in the position of a slave trader, trying to entice owners to sell with a compensated emancipation plan, so it would be countrified self-deprecating humor to imitate the low-class speech of one, just the sort of thing Lincoln would do.
 
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#8
It is often mentioned that the EP did not cover slavery in the Union border states, which is of course true.

What is not well known is that by the end of the war, slavery was dead or dying in the Union border states.

In April 1862, Congress passed a law, which Lincoln signed, that abolished slavery in the District of Columbia. 3100 bondsmen were freed. Slaveryholders were compensated for their loss.

On July 12, 1862, President Lincoln met with representatives and senators from the border states and urged them to agree to gradual, compensated emancipation. He said in part:

The incidents of the war can not be avoided. If the war continue long, as it must, if the object be not sooner attained, the institution in your states will be extinguished by mere friction and abrasion–by the mere incidents of the war. It will be gone, and you will have nothing valuable in lieu of it. Much of it’s [sic] value is gone already. How much better for you, and for your people, to take the step which, at once, shortens the war, and secures substantial compensation for that which is sure to be wholly lost in any other event.​

Lincoln would prove to be correct, insofar as his prediction that slavery would be extinguished. But this was in part a self-fulfilling prophecy: the actions of the federal government with respect to slavery were huge in leading to the demise of the institution.

MD abolished slavery in Nov 1864. MO abolished slavery in January 1865. These states had a combined 202,000 bondsmen according to the 1860 census.

CWMO-105.jpg


Thus, slavery ended in those two places before the end of the war, and that would have been true even if the Confederacy had won the war, and even if the 13th Amendment had never passed.

In Delaware, 83% of the black population was free even before the war started (the state had 1800 slaves and 19,829 freemen). A small, unknown (to me) number of enslaved black men enlisted, which entailed a process that manumitted the slave and compensated the owner. A total of 954 African Americans enlisted in Delaware; and a number of colored persons from Delaware, who may or may not have been free, are known to have enlisted in Pennsylvania.

Expired Image Removed
Deed of Manumission for an enslaved person in Delaware who then enlisted in the Union army. The owner was compensated.

In March of 1865, Congress approved a joint resolution liberating the wives and children of black soldiers. I am uncertain about whether this was enforced or not (and it was made "moot" by the 13th Amendment), but it did offer the promise that many slaves would be freed by the service of the male enlistees in their families.

By the end of the war, KY was the last real holdout in terms of ending slavery within the Union border states. Even there, 23,703 enslaved men enlisted in the Union army (out of a black population in the state of 225,483 slaves and 10,684 freemen). A number of family members escaped to Camp Nelson (Union enlistment site) along with the men. Assuming that the March 1865 Congressional resolution was enforced, at least 2-3 times as many people as the states' previously-enslaved enlistees would have been freed.

The bottom line is, slavery in the Union states was dead or dying even before the 13th Amendment was passed, and even before the end of the war.

- Alan
 
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cash

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#9
Page 290 Recollections of Abraham Lincoln

note 11. Page 235, Line 25, after the word God.

John W, Crisfield

When he was in the White house one day in July 1862, Mr. Lincoln said: " Well, Crisfield, how are you getting along with your report, have you written it yet?" Mr Crisfield replied that he had not. Mr. Lincoln knowing the Emancipation Proclamation was coming, in fact was only two months away - said,

:You better come up with an agreement. Nig@#%$ will never be higher."

Recollections of Abraham Lincoln, 1847-1865
By Ward Hill Lamon

http://books.google.com/books?id=eQ41EHEN0kIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Lamon lincoln&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cxUPUd3BFJGE9QTy-YCoBA&ved=0CEsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=******s&f=false
That's the thing when you carefully cherry pick something out of context. You lose the meaning of the phrase.

But when you look at it in context, you see the meaning very clearly.


Crisfield.jpg


The EP, as we all know, wouldn't apply in the Border States. This is all about Lincoln offering compensated emancipation to the border states--and them turning him down, which puts the lie to those who claim Lincoln could simply have paid all the slaveowners for their slaves and freed them. You can't buy what a person isn't going to sell.
 

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