Restricted Hot Springs' Daughters of Confederacy put 'Battle Flag' up after taking it down in 2017

Belle Montgomery

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Location
44022
HOT SPRINGS, Ark. (KATV) — Former Hot Springs resident Jacob Hicks thought this was a thing of the past.

"It's definitely disappointing," he said.

He is disappointed that the confederate battle flag, a flag we reported on in August of 2017, when he was petitioning to try take to it down, is back where it once was in Hot Springs


"A symbol of the confederacy,” said Hicks, “of a slave-holding country back up in downtown Hot Springs is troubling."

Last year, the United Daughters of the Confederacy took the flag down due to potential rioting following the tensions of what happened in Charlottesville.
REST OF ARTICLE WITH VIDEO:https://katv.com/news/local/hot-spr...s-battle-flag-up-after-taking-it-down-in-2017
 

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Honored Fallen Comrade
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
HOT SPRINGS, Ark. (KATV) — Former Hot Springs resident Jacob Hicks thought this was a thing of the past.

"It's definitely disappointing," he said.

He is disappointed that the confederate battle flag, a flag we reported on in August of 2017, when he was petitioning to try take to it down, is back where it once was in Hot Springs


"A symbol of the confederacy,” said Hicks, “of a slave-holding country back up in downtown Hot Springs is troubling."

Last year, the United Daughters of the Confederacy took the flag down due to potential rioting following the tensions of what happened in Charlottesville.
REST OF ARTICLE WITH VIDEO:https://katv.com/news/local/hot-spr...s-battle-flag-up-after-taking-it-down-in-2017
Good for the ladies of the UDC. :thumbsup:
 

MattL

Guest
Joined
Aug 20, 2015
Location
SF Bay Area
It was a very considerate act for them to comply with the petition and remove it. Consideration lasts for about a year I guess.
 

JonnyReb_In_MI

Corporal
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Location
Southeast Michigan
Good for those ladies! Out of the kindness of their hearts they gave consideration where none was due for a whole year; now they have raised the banner of their ancestors to their honor once more!

That is unfortunate. It sounds like the guy wasted his time with that petition.

I guess he should have thought of that before hand! Oh well... you live and you learn! :biggrin:

It was a very considerate act for them to comply with the petition and remove it. Consideration lasts for about a year I guess.

How long would have been long enough? How bout a little consideration for those who want to honor their ancestors by flying flags related to their military service? Is consideration just a one way street?
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
That is unfortunate. It sounds like the guy wasted his time with that petition.
Would think assuming you can tell others whether they can fly a flag on property they own is a monumental waste of time. Imagine this guy goes through life disappointed in a lot of things........ If he thinks he should somehow be able to micromanage his neighbors and their property......
 
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MattL

Guest
Joined
Aug 20, 2015
Location
SF Bay Area
Good for those ladies! Out of the kindness of their hearts they gave consideration where none was due for a whole year; now they have raised the banner of their ancestors to their honor once more!



I guess he should have thought of that before hand! Oh well... you live and you learn! :biggrin:



How long would have been long enough? How bout a little consideration for those who want to honor their ancestors by flying flags related to their military service? Is consideration just a one way street?

As long as they wanted to get a sentiment of consideration out there. Maybe a year is enough for them, apparently it was. I don't think the nature of the request means removing it for a year really benefiting anything. I think the nature of the petition was how prominent the flag is in central Hot Springs in Landmark Plaza. One of the reasons they cite in the petition is tourism and it's probably valid.

In any case if a group of locals and potential tourists finds a symbol racist and offensive and to you it honors your ancestors, well you just have the choice to make, to weigh those options. Whether having a specific flag up is greater in importance to you and those that agree to you than how it impacts others.

These are the sorts of decisions we make every day. I may find certain "curse" words to not be offensive, yet when I go in public in many places I can use them without recourse. Plenty of times I choose not to depending on the people I'm around and in public due to respecting others. Others times I do use some "curse" words others may find offensive. If you live in any sort of community you face these decisions in other ways all the time, this is no different. Up to you and how you way each side. We all reach a balance.

As to

"How bout a little consideration for those who want to honor their ancestors by flying flags related to their military service? Is consideration just a one way street?"

Of course not. I have 5 direct Confederate ancestors, including one who died serving under Lee. So the CBF represents their service a symbol to me. Additionally I recognize it represents many other things. Such as the Confederacy, a Nation who felt they needed to correct the US Constitution in their own version by adding explicit protection of slavery. Originally formed of States that seceded over the threat to slavery. Additionally an era not all that long ago in which large groups of people (in that same region) brandished the flag as a symbol of White supremacy and segregation, a use it still gets to this day but fortunately significantly less use.

So yeah I recognize all the positive or negative symbolism it contains and it means all those things to me. All of those meanings are set in stone at this point, formed over decades of history, re-use, and reinforcement. None of them are going anywhere, so why shouldn't I choose a way to honor my ancestors that doesn't have an understandably significant impact on others in a public location.

To each their own though.
 

MattL

Guest
Joined
Aug 20, 2015
Location
SF Bay Area
Would think assuming you can tell others whether they can fly a flag on property they own is a monumental waste of time. Imagine this guy goes through life disappointed in a lot of things........ If he thinks he should somehow be able to micromanage his neighbors and their property......

Asking someone to remove something or do something to lessen or remove a negative impact on others is not telling then what they can fly on their property. Just like if I go to a neighbor and ask them to turn their music down doesn't mean I'm telling them whether they can play music or not. Additionally making a request regarding a very large flag pole in town square isn't micro managing.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
However if its not illegal, they have every right to do what they want. This isn't even a CW thing to me, most farmers who own land, are going to be pro property rights. Its kinda the point of owning the land, to have the say and control. If Mr. Disappointed wants to control whether theres a flag there, Mr. Disappointed should pony up and buy it...….otherwise he probably should respect the owners wishes...…

Its private property, its up to the owner.
 
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MattL

Guest
Joined
Aug 20, 2015
Location
SF Bay Area
However if its not illegal, they have every right to do what they want. This isn't even a CW thing to me, most farmers who own land, are going to be pro property rights. Its kinda the point of owning the land, to have the say and control. If Mr. Disappointed wants to control whether theres a flag there, Mr. Disappointed should pony up and buy it...….otherwise he probably should respect the owners wishes...…

Its private property, its up to the owner

No one's disputing it's not illegal or that it isn't private property. So I'm not sure what point you are countering.

It's also not illegal to make a petition to ask someone to change something. Again there's nothing wrong with asking a neighbor to turn down their loud music. They then will weight how important the volume of their music is with how much it's effecting you. Has nothing to do with property rights, absolutely nothing at all. If you live in a community you are subject to the people expressing their opinions around you, freedom of speech.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
No one's disputing it's not illegal or that it isn't private property. So I'm not sure what point you are countering.

It's also not illegal to make a petition to ask someone to change something. Again there's nothing wrong with asking a neighbor to turn down their loud music. They then will weight how important the volume of their music is with how much it's effecting you. Has nothing to do with property rights, absolutely nothing at all. If you live in a community you are subject to the people expressing their opinions around you, freedom of speech.
I agree and flying flags is protected speech in the US. Its hardly surprising the UDC would wish to fly a flag at a memorial on its own property...…. He asked, they humored him a bit, then exercised their rights as well, both as a property owner and of speech. I agree Mr Disappointed should take to heart his speech doesn't trump his neighbors...….they have the same freedom, and a little more rights that actually go with ownership.....
 
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MattL

Guest
Joined
Aug 20, 2015
Location
SF Bay Area
I agree and flying flags is protected speech in the US. Its hardly surprising the UDC would wish to fly a flag at a memorial on its own property...…. He asked, they humored him a bit, then exercised their rights as well, both as a property owner and of speech. I agree Mr Disappointed should take to heart his speech doesn't trump his neighbors...….

I don't know what you are arguing then, both people have expressed their freedom of speech well within the laws. Why are you mocking someone for being disappointed? If we didn't have our own opinions and were disappointed with things we don't agree with we wouldn't be humans, we'd be machines.

Asking someone to do something isn't wrong, bad, or inappropriate.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
I agree both expressed their freedom speech, nothing wrong there. However only one expressed "disappointment" when they had no reason to, they had no claim to the property anyway nor any more freedom of speech then the neighbor is entitled to.
 
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JPK Huson 1863

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Location
Central Pennsylvania
It's about rubbing elbows together in an increasingly small, crowded world. We're not very good at it, ' rights ' frequently interpreted as ' I got mine, to heck with you '. I wish it were possible to acknowledge each other, open minds far enough to allow a glimmer of understanding and go from there.

Anyone interpreting what I just said as being anti-flag wasn't listening. It's not anti anything, it's pro-peace.
 

Belle Montgomery

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Location
44022
As long as they wanted to get a sentiment of consideration out there. Maybe a year is enough for them, apparently it was. I don't think the nature of the request means removing it for a year really benefiting anything. I think the nature of the petition was how prominent the flag is in central Hot Springs in Landmark Plaza. One of the reasons they cite in the petition is tourism and it's probably valid.

In any case if a group of locals and potential tourists finds a symbol racist and offensive and to you it honors your ancestors, well you just have the choice to make, to weigh those options. Whether having a specific flag up is greater in importance to you and those that agree to you than how it impacts others.

These are the sorts of decisions we make every day. I may find certain "curse" words to not be offensive, yet when I go in public in many places I can use them without recourse. Plenty of times I choose not to depending on the people I'm around and in public due to respecting others. Others times I do use some "curse" words others may find offensive. If you live in any sort of community you face these decisions in other ways all the time, this is no different. Up to you and how you way each side. We all reach a balance.

As to

"How bout a little consideration for those who want to honor their ancestors by flying flags related to their military service? Is consideration just a one way street?"

Of course not. I have 5 direct Confederate ancestors, including one who died serving under Lee. So the CBF represents their service a symbol to me. Additionally I recognize it represents many other things. Such as the Confederacy, a Nation who felt they needed to correct the US Constitution in their own version by adding explicit protection of slavery. Originally formed of States that seceded over the threat to slavery. Additionally an era not all that long ago in which large groups of people (in that same region) brandished the flag as a symbol of White supremacy and segregation, a use it still gets to this day but fortunately significantly less use.

So yeah I recognize all the positive or negative symbolism it contains and it means all those things to me. All of those meanings are set in stone at this point, formed over decades of history, re-use, and reinforcement. None of them are going anywhere, so why shouldn't I choose a way to honor my ancestors that doesn't have an understandably significant impact on others in a public location.

To each their own though.

"One of the reasons they cite in the petition is tourism and it's probably valid."
Really? I would hope that those who choose to "tour" anywhere in Texas know ahead of time they're in a previous Confederate state. What's next...remove horses and cattle because some city slicker whose "touring" is offended seeing manure in a pasture or the odor of livestock while touring a ranch?
 

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Honored Fallen Comrade
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
"One of the reasons they cite in the petition is tourism and it's probably valid."
Really? I would hope that those who choose to "tour" anywhere in Texas know ahead of time they're in a previous Confederate state. What's next...remove horses and cattle because some city slicker whose "touring" is offended seeing manure in a pasture or the odor of livestock while touring a ranch?

Don't pass that possibility off lightly, it is already happening here.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
It's about rubbing elbows together in an increasingly small, crowded world. We're not very good at it, ' rights ' frequently interpreted as ' I got mine, to heck with you '. I wish it were possible to acknowledge each other, open minds far enough to allow a glimmer of understanding and go from there.

Anyone interpreting what I just said as being anti-flag wasn't listening. It's not anti anything, it's pro-peace.
I don't take it anti flag at all, it seems anti petition if anything. One should recognize their neighbors have as every much freedom to express themselves as anyone else, and certainly have the right on their own land to decide to fly a flag or not. Meddling in other peoples affairs don't promote good relations I would agree. Seems a case of someone who should be a little more concerned about his yard, then his neighbors...…

I would perhaps be a little more sympathetic if it was somehow new...…..however the UDC has owned the memorial and land since 1953.....65 years...... The memorial goes back to 1919.....If one doesn't want to live next to a UDC, Confederate memorial or Flag, then don't buy a home next to one...….

Sadly this is the type of thing we deal with all too frequently in agriculture......People will build a new house near a hog confinement that's been there 20 years...….to then complain about the smell and try to get the hog confinement shut down...…..when they knew it was there when they built their home......hard to feel sorry for people like that

We in agriculture should try to be respectful of the public in building new things such as hog confinements,,,,,,,,,however if you choose to live next to one that's already there......that was YOUR choice.
 
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