Hoopskirts, Pre-Controversy, Plain, Oid Torment

JPK Huson 1863

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#1
Sorry but I am getting a huge kick out of these veritable instruments of torment being in the headlines- and connected with controversy toboot? WOMENS contribution to the current racial turmoil? Puleeze. We can do better than hoopskirts. Our sisters loathed these things 150 years. Surely sisters today cannot pick crinolines- hoopskirts as a symbol over which to raise indignation and keep our country separate?
hoop1.jpg

A mid-sized crinoline is endured under this skirt. By her expression something itches.

So, backing up.

" In the early 1800’s, women wanted clothing and accessories that gave them a “fullness” effect. Wide chests tapering to a narrow waist and widening back out at the hips, the “hourglass” shape became the desirable appearance for women. To achieve the sought after shape, women in the early 1800’s went through a cumbersome and complicated dressing routine that required many clothing items and multiple layers of apparel to achieve the “fullness” effect. By the late 1850’s, the affordable and easy-to-wear crinoline appeared which ignited a hoop skirt craze that lasted for well over a decade."

"The “caged crinoline” or “hoop skirt” was a series of steel concentric hoops that were hung from a waist band via cotton straps, in order to shape the woman’s dress into the desired bell shape. The hoops in the crinoline were smaller at the top and grew wider towards the bottom. There were typically nine to eighteen hoops according to the formality of the dress. Smaller hoops were worn during every day dress while larger crinolines were reserved for balls, weddings, and other special occasions. "
http://www.mortaljourney.com/2011/03/all-trends/crinoline-or-hoop-skirt

Sounds painful already.

Patents were registered. Women demanded less encumbrance while still following fashion. Yes, you created and registered patents for these er, structures.
hoopskirt ptent.jpg


I have never been able to ascertain whether this series of photos is ' real ' or Hollywood. Getting one dressed for a ball using a wide hoop. I think it may be real given the women's detail in clothing and the rooms touches?

hoops 2 crinoline-c1850.jpg


hoops 3-awomanwearingacrinolinebeingdressedwiththeaidoflongpolestoliftherdressoverthehoops.jpg


Not merely for upper classes, crinoline/hoops sold in markets, advertised freely. Seems so odd in Victorian time right?

hoops 1 crinoline-shop-1860s-by-eugene-atget.jpg


The advertisement
hoop3.jpg


hoop2.jpg

Sitting in a hoop- try to figure out what-is-where. Hmm.

hoops 6.jpg




The full set of the ' dressing for the ball" photos

My favs, found pics of how on earth women were able to travel in carraiges and public transportation! You took your hoop OFF, the nice driver hooked it to the back of the carriage, thereby allowing this carriage to pick up more passengers. LOVE to see you acceot your hoop again at the other end, right?
hoops4.jpg

This is how your hoop traveled separately from you on public transport. When did you remove it? Where? Right in the street? Where did you step back into it? I really do want to know!
hoops 7.jpg

I think this is English.

WHY are we having a snit on bringing them back even for a small purpose. More importantly- why are men involved in the conversation?
 

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James B White

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#2
There was certainly a small faction of women who vocally disliked hoops and spoke for dress reform and bloomer costumes, but even they mostly gave up by the war and concentrated on more substantial women,s rights issues. But is there evidence the average woman loathed them? The passage you quoted seems to fit better the general attitude--they were a lightweight easy improvement on what came before: " To achieve the sought after shape, women in the early 1800’s went through a cumbersome and complicated dressing routine that required many clothing items and multiple layers of apparel to achieve the “fullness” effect. By the late 1850’s, the affordable and easy-to-wear crinoline appeared which ignited a hoop skirt craze that lasted for well over a decade."

I think you've mixed some satirical photos in there with real ones.
 

Northern Light

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#3
Interesting thread, JPK.
In the early 1800’s, women wanted clothing and accessories that gave them a “fullness” effect. Wide chests tapering to a narrow waist and widening back out at the hips, the “hourglass” shape became the desirable appearance for women.
Well, that is debatable.
Until the 1820s, the fashion was for an Empire style with little or no corsetting, which we see in Jane Austen's novels. It was closer to Victoria's ascension to the throne nearer mid-century that fashion became more modest, in reaction to the excesses of the Georgian era.
Were women WANTING this restriction or were they being TOLD what they wanted, in the same way that women are today told by the "fashion" industry that they should wear clothes that make them look ridiculous (IMHO!) It has long been my contention that fashion makers are misogynists.:cautious::D
 

GenDeb

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#4
Love seeing these photographs too JPK and I know there's something romantic about them. But I gotta tell ya, I bought a "real" one complete with all the trimmings because I was sometimes required to wear one for some craft shows where I wanted to vend, that ran in conjunction with RW & CW encampments. I have to tell you, it was pure h*ll trying to get into a port-a-john, using the handicapped one which is super wide. I still had to tip my hoops up sideways to get in. By the end of day 2 I was simply stepping out of them to get in. Thankfully the event is held in a wooded area in the fall when its rather cool so I didn't get overly hot wearing sweat pants under everything. :hot::stomp: Nobody ran off with my hoops either.

I so could not be an authentic reenactor!!!!
 

diane

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#6
:laugh: Oh, dear... I'm sticking to my two-hide dress... Once at some party Grant accidentally stepped on a lady's hoop dress and tore it. Having a temper fit over her ruined finery, she slapped him! I just wonder how she reached him...must have had arms like an orangutan. :confused:
 

James B White

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#7
I've seen this before and have wondered if this is really a period photograph? I don't know, seems a little risque' ?
It's part of a series of parody photos, with others also shown above. People bought them because women's underwear is always funny. I love the Mission Impossible way the maid is suspended by a ribbon to reach the lady she's dressing in the last one in the OP. Based on the basque bodice on the lady at right in the photo you showed, which was a short-lived style, I'd date them to the late 1850s, which makes sense as a time to make fun of something new.

And no, women didn't take their hoops off and hang them on the outside of omnibuses.
 
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#8
Skirts started gradually getting fuller in the 1820s. They kept getting fuller and fuller, and, until the advent of the steel hope or cage, made possible by the new Bessemer steel process, ladies were wearing 5 or 6 petticoats plus, often, a corded petticoat (which was really heavy with many rows of cording), or a crinoline (petticoat reinforced with horsehair). After the cage came in in 1857, the number of petticoats was reduced to two--one under the hoop for modesty and another over the cage to hide the lines of the metal hoops. The amount of laundry, ironing, and starching was reduced about 75%, and so was the weight. Hoops were available for as little as 25 cents so were worn by everyone. The hoop was actually quite liberating and even the dress reformers thought it was good because it did away with multiple heavy petticoats dragging in the dust. (Note that skirts got a bit shorter about this time, too, up to 4" from the ground.)

Despite the exaggerated ones shown above (definitely parody!) and the bigger hoops worn with ball gowns by extra fashionable people like Mary Lincoln, most hoops ranged from 90" to 120" in circumference.

Sources: Lectures by Carolann Schmitt and Marge Harding at Conference of Historic Fashion, Textile & Living History, Oregon City, OR, April 10-12, 2015, and Juanita Leisch, Who Wore What 1860-65.

I'm still working at sitting down while wearing a hoop without disaster--if you don't do it just right, it pops up in front! And I haven't yet figured out how to drive a car to an event while wearing one. At least our ancestors didn't have the latter problem!
 

JPK Huson 1863

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#13
Ah! Too, too funny. So deliberate satire! Duh! Where in blazes did these come from? Doubly hysterical since now they're separated and all the heck all over the place- A period satirical magazine? It didn't seem right, right? Victorian women stepping out of hoops in public? Now, already did a thread on the reactionary dress- awful, awful, awful- am hoping whomever put this together was not at the same time promoting that. The dress reform movement James B referred to? There were 2 phases, neither at all feminine.


hoops-3-awomanwearingacrinolinebeingdressedwiththeaidoflongpolestoliftherdressoverthehoops-jpg.jpg


I've seen this before and have wondered if this is really a period photograph? I don't know, seems a little risque' ?

That's what I thought? Also was wondering if the hair seemed a little ' Hollywood, 1930's '? Then there is what appears to be a much smaller hoop on the floor, bottom right. Made it seem more genuine. Of course it did. It would be interesting to know where these came from first I'm guessing somewhere on-line nicely sourced, later ' Pinterested' with source wiped clean and re-posted from there.
 

Northern Light

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#15
I think that the big tip-off here, is that there are no servants in the pictures. No one wanted to be "Biddy" or Heaven forfend, "Mammy" in these photos. (Names are exaggerated to get my point across.)
Edit: Except the last one!
 

JPK Huson 1863

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#16
Best citation from the series that I can find is from Getty Images here: http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...ing-room-preparing-for-the-news-photo/3278536

"The scene from a lady's dressing room, preparing for the crinoline. London Stereoscopic Company Comic Series – 503"

Ha! Very cool to have the link, thank you! I'll use this thread, too, if anyone requires enlightening. I mean really, it's hardly the first, second or third time I've bought something way, way past hook, line and sinker. I generally purchase this stuff all the way back to the fishing boat.
 



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