Help wanted for 2 Civil War Swords

Joined
Feb 21, 2019
Messages
4
#1
Here are a couple of swords supposedly from the Civil War era. Any information of any type on them, would be greatly welcomed.

78A4D4F6-7E60-421F-A2FE-03E0DC55C245.jpeg
3376FC81-60BE-4D47-8797-124C48246985.jpeg
D8EDA3DC-1749-4121-964F-20E6ADA7FF34.jpeg
45F6F250-E04A-4780-B108-2981D24AA047.jpeg
71CA9177-0B84-4CAE-8C78-5C3DE11C8E16.jpeg
6C7D78A1-26F1-4A0A-BABA-C7DDAD222635.jpeg
B48746F5-194A-4CE8-90D1-23E320AB77D8.jpeg
 

Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

ucvrelics

Captain
Forum Host
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
7,129
Location
Alabama
#4
If its a post war No it didn't see any combat.

CSA sword
F1214A_small.jpg
F1214B_small.jpg
F1214C_small.jpg
F1214z.jpg


Editor Note: Pictures of this sword were submitted to me for evaluation. I told the owner that I thought the sword was fantasy.
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2019
Messages
4
#8
Thank you everyone. My area of expertise is coins and currency, so I’m unfamiliar with the history behind the swords.
Can anyone add anything else about the second sword in particular?
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
307
Location
Northern Virginia
#10
The M1860 had a long service life from 1860 until it was replaced by the M1902 all-officer's sword. In addition to US Army and various State militia elements, it was used extensively by veterans' and fraternal groups, military schools, etc, often well into the 20th century. There were a number of pattern changes make over time. The original had an undecorated folding rear counterguard and a gilt brass mounted blued or browned scabbard with two carrying rings.

1550799222245.png

Later scabbards changed to a nickel plated scabbard with three carrying rings like this one.
1550799292950.png


In 1872 a major change was made to the design by addimg a rather elaborate design to the rear folding counterguard.
1550799409811.png

In 1878 Springfield Arsenal made another major change to the swords it produced, the main difference being that the rear counterguard was cast in fixed position. Private manufacturers did not commonly follow this second change. Most either continued to use a folding rear counterguard or, on cheaper examples, eleminated it.
1550799512765.png


All the M1860 variants which were used by the Army had a fixed front counterguard with an eagle backed by a panoply of flags. There was a lot of variation of detail, e.g. a federal shield on the eagles chest or not, a wreath around the eagle or not, etc.
1550800083450.png

M1860 swords used by non-Army groups often had a different front counterguard design. Most commonly encountered of these are GAR swords which featured fancy interlocking GAR initials.

It appears your second sword does not have a rear counterguard. I would guess, based on this and other design features, that your sword is a non-Army sword from the late-1800s. I really can't make out from the picture what design is on your front counterguard - I don't see a pelican. This design would probably provide the best clue as to the original user of the sword. It also seems your sword blade may be etched. If so, this could also provide a clue to the original group.
 

ucvrelics

Captain
Forum Host
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
7,129
Location
Alabama
#11
Looks like a crude Pelican feeding her young to me could be a Lilly. Can't remember which fraternal group had the Lilly, but of course I'm knee deep in the SA.
pelican.jpg
 

Glen_C

Corporal
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
404
Location
Nipmuc USA
#14
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
2,734
#15
Welcome from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. I would contact the Horse Soldier Shop in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. They are experts in anything militaria and are very nice people to deal with and answer any questions. David.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
307
Location
Northern Virginia
#16
http://www.antiqueweaponstore.com/US Fraternal Sword, Loyal Order of the Moose.htm

I'm being lazy but iirc, also shown in the Hamilton. Kaplan and Marino new testament of fraternal swords. You will also find helmet head cruciform type swords attributed to the group. A drinking club, first and foremost but also a benevolent group.
View attachment 293631
https://www.mooseintl.org/loyal-order-of-moose/

https://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/fraternalism/moose.htm
Glen, you nailed it again this time. I had a hard time seeing the moose even after you posted the above photo. Even with the poorer casting, however, if you rotate the photos at the top of this thread, it is clearly the same sword.
 



Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Top