Help! (I let my mouth overload...well, you know)

Nathanb1

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Newest member of the McCulloch County Hysterical Commission overloaded her posterior again....I need some help, and of course, I thought of you guys first.

I (we) need a good map of the military roads in Texas (especially the ones which criss-crossed McCulloch County) by the time of the Civil War. We know there was an east-west road (I'll explain how I know in a moment) and a north-south one through here. The north-south route pretty much went through Mason then through where Lohn is now, crossing the Colorado at Waldrip Crossing--that would later become the Great Western Cattle Trail, in fact. I realized THAT years ago while I was standing in my classroom prepping for the next day's lessons and of course, started jumping around like a fool and ran out the door to stand in the middle of the road, because Robert E. Lee obviously rode through at some point :D in the 1850's.

The East-West road ran near what we now know as Soldier's Water Hole--for obvious reasons.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Soldiers-Waterhole-Historical-Monument/136300136412112
http://www.cemeteries-of-tx.com/Wtx/McCulloch/cemetery/soldiers.htm
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMTRJC_Fort_Griffin_Fort_Mason_Road_Brady_TX
http://www.forttours.com/pages/hmmcculloch.asp

HOWEVER, I have never found what to me is good documentation of this event--I have not yet accessed the original application. However, everyone gets really, really huffy when I question it; therefore, I'd love to see some of his reports or mapping or something....:D

It doesn't even show up in The Handbook of Texas online, which is sort of shocking if it is true. I'm about to drive out and see why there is no actual TSHA metal marker (or if there is). There should be. :nah disagree: If it's true. Go to work, detectives!

**Edit: Just drove out there. There is no official marker where I could have sworn it was in 2005 on my first trip out there....more searching is in order.
 
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I wonder if Cody Mobley at FT. McKavett, would be a go-to person for any maps/info you need, He's all over Face Book.

Kevin Dally
 

Nathanb1

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Great minds think alike, Kevin. He is one of my next go-to folks, along with Dr. Donald Frazier and Dr. Richard McCaslin. Well, and I was hoping @andy Hall would take pity on me :O o: Those are my first thoughts, anyway. Of course, I'm doing now what I should have been working on since our last meeting in January. :D
 

archieclement

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Great minds think alike, Kevin. He is one of my next go-to folks, along with Dr. Donald Frazier and Dr. Richard McCaslin. Well, and I was hoping @andy Hall would take pity on me :O o: Those are my first thoughts, anyway. Of course, I'm doing now what I should have been working on since our last meeting in January. :D
I was looking at wiki out of curiosity it shows the population of McCulloch county was only 173 in 1870...…….If thats accurate would think roads would be somewhat limited.
 

Nathanb1

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On a brighter note, I was just told by my contractor :rofl: (it's a small town) his wife took a photo of their grandson by the official marker last year--I have no idea where it's gone. Just drove out there and it ain't there. At all. Here's the text from the TSHA marker site, though:

Details for Soldier's Waterhole (Atlas Number 5307004976)
Historical Marker — Atlas Number 5307004976
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Data
Marker Number4976
Atlas Number5307004976
Marker Title Soldier's Waterhole
Index Entry Soldier's Waterhole
Address
City Brady Vicinity
County
McCulloch
UTM Zone14
UTM Easting 478485
UTM Northing 3448971
Subject Codes military topics; Native Americans
Marker Year 1964
Designations Marker
Location From Brady take US 190 east about 5.5 miles. Take CR 412 east 2.5 miles to marker.
Marker Size State Approved
Marker Text U.S. soldiers under command of Robert E. Lee used this site while traveling the nearby military road and patroling this area for Indians. West bound immigrants also camped here prior to the Civil War; Here 27 Indians surprised and massacred 18 men, women and children burned their wagons and stole their horses. 1850; 1869. ON THE BACK SIDE OF THE MONUMENT: Ancient Indian Camp Ground; Erected in 1964 by McCulloch County Historical Society
 

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Nathanb1

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I was looking at wiki out of curiosity it shows the population of McCulloch county was only 173 in 1870...…….If thats accurate would think roads would be somewhat limited.
Exactly! Although it was actually created in 1856. Texans are nothing if not optimistic. The area, however, was crisscrossed from archaic times by Native Americans, and in 1788 an expedition from San Antonio to Santa Fe came through. In fact, there was a Spanish Franciscan mission just north of us in a Godforsaken site; in 1831 we had a famous visitor...."On November 21, 1831, in the Brady vicinity, James Bowie, Rezin P. Bowie, David Buchanan, Cephas D. Hamm, Matthew Doyle, Jesse Wallace, Thomas McCaslin, Robert Armstrong, and James Coryell with two servants, Charles and Gonzales, held at bay for a day and a night 164 Caddo and Lipans. After 80 warriors had been killed, the Indians withdrew.[7]" LOL---I've seen that marker. :D (@andy Hall, is that OUR Dr. Rick McCaslin's ancestor?)

Which is why I'm looking for a military map...Lee, in the 2nd Dragoons, arrived at Ft. Mason on March 6, 1855, and "on March 27, Albert Sidney Johnston assigned him to Camp Cooper, 170 miles north." In order to get there, Lee took the military road north to Camp Cooper, right through our county. The best crossing of the Colorado was at what would be known as Waldrip Store, in the northern part of the county. The best crossing of the San Saba (our southern border) is right at Camp San Saba, which would be established during the war. It's pretty much a given. He went back and forth several times, returned to VA, and was in Mason when Secession began. There are only small windows of time where he could have actually been at Soldiers Waterhole (if the story is true). I'd love to find his reports from that period, but I only know how to use the OR's.:bounce: A sad gap in my education, I know. So any documentation, maps, etc. anyone can find would be a blessing!
 
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#11
I just got lost wandering around the Bundick Cemetery in Matagorda Texas. What an amazing wealth of knowledge on this site, cemeteries of texas….thanks for an opening tour. I promise future visits.
Lubliner.
 

Nathanb1

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And Drew wins the prize! Just searched military roads Texas and....BIG BINGO! Plus the road from Ft. Mason went (from what I can tell, and I know this county pretty well) right smack past Soldier's Water Hole. Now if we can find Lee's (or someone's report). That may require Cody Mobley of Ft. McKavett....but I've got a whole day to get in touch with him, so no worries!:smile coffee:

military roads.jpg



I am so ashamed....I got my Master's from North Texas, which hosts the Portal to Texas History. Lordy---no one tell Dr. McCaslin!!!!
 
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#15
@Nathanb1 ,you are not lazy. You have taught many of us more than you know. It's great to "hear your voice" at Civil War Talk.

We're organizing a muster at Vicksburg National Military Park next fall. I really, really hope you a yours can make it.
 

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