Help!! 1863/1870 Allin with incorrect barrel.

Moose1175

Cadet
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
I have an 1863 Springfield rifle with the 1870 Allin trap door conversion on consignment. The owner wants to sell it but I have no idea where to begin price wise. I knew something was off immediately due to the shortness of the forestock and the fact that the barrel is octagonal. Am I correct in assuming the original barrel was probably damaged somehow (maybe after a resleeve?) and replaced with this barrel? Has anyone seen anything like this? Is it junk or unique? Thanks!
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Very interesting model 1863/trap door/sporter. It started life as an 1863 Springfield and was then converted to a trap door in 1870 and then someone converted it to a sporter or a target rifle. The butt plate has also been converted as well which makes me lean towards a target rifle.
 
Looks like a sporter someone threw together from parts. The action doesn't look like a M1866, though the lock is without a doubt. The stock looks M1873 around the lock area.

I'd like to see more pictures of the barrel. This could be a thrown together parts gun from after 1900, or maybe some gunsmith build before hand, which I halfway suspect as an octagonal barrel post-1900 would be unusual.
 
Also, lock is dated 1862 which does not quite add up either. As previously posted, this is probably a piece cobbled together from disassociated parts and although there is nothing wrong with that, it has little to no value as a piece intended for a collection.
 
I believe the lock date is 1863? Looking at the length of the receiver and the fact that the breech-block does not have the word "model" in it, and that the receiver is serial numbered in the 27K range; I believe this is a model of 1868 receiver.

Is it still in 50-70 caliber?

But there is not much original left in it and as others have commented I believe this is something put together. I would like to see the top of the front of the receiver; it looks like a screw there for some reason? The 1868 hinge wasn't attached with screws; so was that another sight attachment at some point?
 
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Rather than something "cobbled together from parts" this rifle is typical of the 1870's when the Model 1873 .45/70 Springfields were introduced and the previous .50/70 Springfields were sold as secondhand rifles. Frontier gunsmiths snapped them up and turned them into what we would call sporting rifles. This happened in Bozeman, Montana Territory for instance as nearby Fort Ellis sold off their older model Springfields locally and men like Walter Cooper bought them cheap and made hunting rifles of them for sale locally. I've seen several of these and owned one myself with Cooper's buckhorn rear sight. The .50/70 cartridge was fine for large game including buffalo and grizzlies. Using an octagon barrel on the Springfield action was not uncommon on these frontier made rifles.
 
I like it. It started life as a Model 1868 trapdoor cal .50-70. wonder what the oct barrel is chambered for. Made up by Western gunsmith for cheap buffalo rifle. Carbine trigger guard is nice. I'd love to own it. I have four or 5 that were converted very much as this one is.
 
I agree with @hawknknife. Depending on what use @Moose1175 desires to do with this piece, he mentioned he was unsure of its price. I would also enjoy seeing what price may be right for a piece in this condition thrown together with an assortage of different parts, years, and makes.
Thanks,
Lubliner.
 
I have an 1863 Springfield rifle with the 1870 Allin trap door conversion on consignment. The owner wants to sell it but I have no idea where to begin price wise. I knew something was off immediately due to the shortness of the forestock and the fact that the barrel is octagonal. Am I correct in assuming the original barrel was probably damaged somehow (maybe after a resleeve?) and replaced with this barrel? Has anyone seen anything like this? Is it junk or unique? Thanks!View attachment 378155View attachment 378156View attachment 378157View attachment 378158
Numerich used to sell, decades ago, an oct. bbl. that you could use to convert your old trapdoor into a 'buffalo gun'. they were cheap and easy to do. I'll bet this is one. yup. I'ts a parts gun, and if you like it and it's under $100 go for it. but you'll never get your money back...Ken
 
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