Lee He was a foe without hate

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"We are beginning to get the cause of General Lee's death. Jefferson Davis says that, "he died of a broken heart;" and one journal has declared that he died being sadly depressed at the condition of the country, that he could stand it no longer. From which we are to infer, that the liberation of four millions of slaves and their elevation to manhood, and to the enjoyment of their civil and political rights was more than he could stand, so he died!"

-- Frederick Douglass editorial, in the newspaper, The New National Era, Nov. 10, 1870.
 
From the NY Times 'On This Day' website, comes the following section of Robert E. Lee's Obituary, dated Oct. 13, 1870:

"...In his farewell letter to Gen. Scott, he spoke of the struggle which this step had cost him, and his wife declared that he "wept tears of blood over this terrible war." There are probably few who doubt the sincerity of his protestation, but thousands have regretted, and his best friends will ever have to regret, the error of judgment, the false conception of the allegiance due to his Government and his country, which led one so rarely gifted to cast his lot with traitors, and devote his splendid talents to the execution of a wicked plot to tear asunder and ruin the Republic in whose service his life had hitherto been spent..."

The entire obituary many be read at the following website:

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0119.html

Unionblue
 
"We are beginning to get the cause of General Lee's death. Jefferson Davis says that, "he died of a broken heart;" and one journal has declared that he died being sadly depressed at the condition of the country, that he could stand it no longer. From which we are to infer, that the liberation of four millions of slaves and their elevation to manhood, and to the enjoyment of their civil and political rights was more than he could stand, so he died!"

-- Frederick Douglass editorial, in the newspaper, The New National Era, Nov. 10, 1870.

He was mistaken, Lee died of pneumonia, though i have to give Douglass credit; his parting shot made better copy in a Northern newspaper.
 
The Victorians are who we all were at one time. They were us and we are them. They were slightly over the top in outlook and speech. They tended to romanticize life and death, and they admired traits then that we would dismiss today. I knew some Victorians, my grandfather was born in 1867 and died around 1964. It was who he was. So was my dad to a degree, we tend to forget how many of our parents or grandparents were heavily influenced by Victorians. We still are living with some of those ideas only slightly modernized. Times change not so much some of our practices. Most funerals today are still heavily influenced by Victorian ideas, The words, the eulogy, ceremony, viewing, embalming. It goes on. If you stop and think about it for awhile you can see other ideas still around that had their origins with those long dead people. Your dead and well remembered ancestors who fought in some war that affects us to this day. We still think of Lee as a very honorable man, remembered for who he was and what he did.

We live in a much more cynical day and age. I think we've gone beyond trying to be realistic and avoid putting people on pedestals to actively trying to tear people down. The pendulum has gone too far in that direction.
 
We live in a much more cynical day and age. I think we've gone beyond trying to be realistic and avoid putting people on pedestals to actively trying to tear people down. The pendulum has gone too far in that direction.

Or perhaps not far enough.

It appears those cynical folks of today have yet to have all their say against those past folks put upon pedestals and why they did such. And is that not their right, as this is their time and age?
 
Or perhaps not far enough.

It appears those cynical folks of today have yet to have all their say against those past folks put upon pedestals and why they did such. And is that not their right, as this is their time and age?

Do you think the men who knew Lee might well have had a better idea of his character than we do today, 150 years after his death? I do.
 
...a soldier without cruelty...
So much for testing the outer limits of 19th century hyperbole! Of course Lee was a soldier with enormous cruelty--arguably one of the very best in our history. Still, why should we be offended or surprised with this particular riff? It is common in formal introductions and funerals even today. We are human thus we exaggerate--what else is new?
 
Your hero is Lincoln and Grant, mine is General Robert E. Lee. :lee: SALUTE!!

You've picked a good hero, Reb. I think there is much to admire about Lee. The more I read about him, the more I see why he was held in such high esteem by most of his peers and most Southerners.

So much for testing the outer limits of 19th century hyperbole! Of course Lee was a soldier with enormous cruelty--arguably one of the very best in our history.

"War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it; the crueler it is, the sooner it will be over" - W. T. Sherman
 
Lets see, Lee was surrendering his army, an army that had fought and died under his leadership through countless trials, tribulations, and privations, an army near starvation but ready to fight on if called too. I think Lee can be forgiven for not slapping Grant on the back and exchanging jokes during the surrender negotiations.

Well said.

I never interpreted Lee's demeanor toward Grant as haughtiness, and I don't believe Grant did either. Lee was at the lowest point in his military career, was surrendering the Army of Northern Virginia, and ultimately with it...the entire Confederacy. That had to be a very bitter pill to swallow. I think any person in Lee's boots would have been "strictly business" and eager to get it over with.
 
Do you think the men who knew Lee might well have had a better idea of his character than we do today, 150 years after his death? I do.

"It is history that teaches us to hope." - R. E. Lee.

I like the teaching part of the above quote about history.

150 years after Lee's death, we are learning more about him, his actions, and his beliefs.

The learning didn't stop 150 years ago nor is it contained totally in the men who knew him when.

That's what I believe.
 
okay I had to come back. Well if he was sold on the idea that Robert E Lee was the greatest thing since Swiss cheese there's no sense in discussing. I'm of the opinion that this individual initiated with several generals and politicians the death of nearly 300,000 and more boys that fourth to preserve the union. So don't take it personal when I don't get all fuzzy inside about what a great man he was. All Americans owe a debt of gratitude to the men who fort and died to preserve this country and do you really believe he had no animosity towards the union. 300,000 dead soldiers would think different. What brought me back was this. the Civil War was more than just a history to a lot of men and women who pay the ultimate sacrifice and sometimes retreat at sacrifice to lightly go to Arlington and tell them he was really a nice guy.
 
okay I had to come back. Well if he was sold on the idea that Robert E Lee was the greatest thing since Swiss cheese there's no sense in discussing. I'm of the opinion that this individual initiated with several generals and politicians the death of nearly 300,000 and more boys that fourth to preserve the union. So don't take it personal when I don't get all fuzzy inside about what a great man he was. All Americans owe a debt of gratitude to the men who fort and died to preserve this country and do you really believe he had no animosity towards the union. 300,000 dead soldiers would think different. What brought me back was this. the Civil War was more than just a history to a lot of men and women who pay the ultimate sacrifice and sometimes retreat at sacrifice to lightly go to Arlington and tell them he was really a nice guy.

Well at the time he died, a huge segment of the population thought he was the best thing since sliced bread, hence the praise. He conducted himself with honor his entire life. He did his duty as he saw fit, maybe you and 300,000 dead northern soldiers and their family's do not see it that way but some 260,000 dead southern soldiers and their family's did.

History is written by the victors.

Animosity? Hardly, "I have fought against the people of the North because I believed they were seeking to wrest from the South dearest rights. But I have never cherished toward them bitter or vindictive feelings, and have never seen the day when I did not pray for them.”
 
The trouble with defining Lee is that for decades, the "Lost Cause" movement suceeded in portraying Lee as an exalted, saintly figure who could do no wrong. But objectively speaking, Lee was a mortal man who could exhibit animosity towards his foe especially because of the personal losses in property and family that he suffered during the war. This, however, does not detract from his talent as a military leader who almost single handedly among confederate generals, gave the southern confederacy a real run for its money.
 
okay I had to come back. Well if he was sold on the idea that Robert E Lee was the greatest thing since Swiss cheese there's no sense in discussing. I'm of the opinion that this individual initiated with several generals and politicians the death of nearly 300,000 and more boys that fourth to preserve the union. So don't take it personal when I don't get all fuzzy inside about what a great man he was. All Americans owe a debt of gratitude to the men who fort and died to preserve this country and do you really believe he had no animosity towards the union. 300,000 dead soldiers would think different. What brought me back was this. the Civil War was more than just a history to a lot of men and women who pay the ultimate sacrifice and sometimes retreat at sacrifice to lightly go to Arlington and tell them he was really a nice guy.


And a Great Robert E. Lee had this to say. "It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it."
That doesn't show hate to me.
And let me add this. "Duty then is the sublimest word in the English language. You should do your duty in all things. You can never do more, you should never wish to do less.
 
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okay I had to come back. Well if he was sold on the idea that Robert E Lee was the greatest thing since Swiss cheese there's no sense in discussing. I'm of the opinion that this individual initiated with several generals and politicians the death of nearly 300,000 and more boys that fourth to preserve the union. So don't take it personal when I don't get all fuzzy inside about what a great man he was. All Americans owe a debt of gratitude to the men who fort and died to preserve this country and do you really believe he had no animosity towards the union. 300,000 dead soldiers would think different. What brought me back was this. the Civil War was more than just a history to a lot of men and women who pay the ultimate sacrifice and sometimes retreat at sacrifice to lightly go to Arlington and tell them he was really a nice guy.
I didn't read what you posted about Grant but how do you feel about him? Based on your statement he would at least be equal, right?
 
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