Hanover Junction, PA

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York, Pennsylvania
just a little PS. My sister brought her pictures of Germany out and you wouldn't believe how it looks like parts of york County but then I guess you would have a nice weekend. Snows, coming
Yes, a number of old accounts suggest the similarity with southern Germany in appearance and climate is one of the reasons the Palatinates and later generations settled here in southern Pennsylvania.
 
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York, Pennsylvania
Thank you so much, Scott, the blog entries are great and I will get the books. I didn't realize they covered this area. The Gettysburg magazine article was very well done. I had put it aside years ago and was pleased to finally make it to the site this year.
Can you say anything more about the then vs. now you photo posted in your blog of the "bridge burned by Confederates"? I couldn't find that perspective, but I only had time to walk north from the station. Would I see that perspective walking south from the station along the rail trail?
Hi George!

The photo of the bridge was taken from the old Hanover Branch Railroad tracks that once curved northwesterly from Hanover Junction toward Hanover. The bridge over the creek is on the Northern Central line (on the rail trail) and is now a modern concrete bridge for bicyclists and pedestrians just north of the depot. The image is tough to duplicate today with the foliage/trees. I took the modern shot from the parking lot in the approximate position of the old HBRR tracks shown in the foreground of the Brady picture.
 

George Thomas

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Hi George!

The photo of the bridge was taken from the old Hanover Branch Railroad tracks that once curved northwesterly from Hanover Junction toward Hanover. The bridge over the creek is on the Northern Central line (on the rail trail) and is now a modern concrete bridge for bicyclists and pedestrians just north of the depot. The image is tough to duplicate today with the foliage/trees. I took the modern shot from the parking lot in the approximate position of the old HBRR tracks shown in the foreground of the Brady picture.
Thanks, again, that's great. I know exactly where you are talking about. I figured I was close, but I was right on top of it and didn't realize it! This will be a good excuse to go back.
 
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civilken

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Yes, a number of old accounts suggest the similarity with southern Germany in appearance and climate is one of the reasons the Palatinates and later generations settled here in southern Pennsylvania.
and our conversation did something else taught me the word palatinates I had to look it up. You are never too old to expand your vocabulary thank you and have a nice day.
 
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My sister brought her pictures of Germany out and you wouldn't believe how it looks like parts of york County
Absolutely!
When we were in York County it looked so much like home, I almost forgot that I was in the US. Absolutely no wonder that the Pennsylvania Dutch felt immediately at home there! It is not only similar to the Palatinate, but maybe even more to Lower Saxony, where I live, as the countryside is flat in parts.

I think it has been discussed already, but could somebody tell me once again please why William Frassanito thinks the tall man with the top hat standing in front of the railway building in the old photo no.2 should NOT be Lincoln? He looks exactly like him, IMHO!
 

Mike Serpa

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I think it has been discussed already, but could somebody tell me once again please why William Frassanito thinks the tall man with the top hat standing in front of the railway building in the old photo no.2 should NOT be Lincoln? He looks exactly like him, IMHO!
He doesn't look like Lincoln to me.
Screen Shot 2017-12-11 at 11.22.38 AM.png


I want to know how this woman managed to levitate long enough for the photo to be taken! (My personal record is 3.95 seconds.)
Screen Shot 2017-12-11 at 11.25.07 AM.png
 
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LoyaltyOfDogs

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Thanks for the kind words and excellent photos. If anyone wants to know more about this scenic and historic place here in York County PA, I cover the fighting at Hanover Junction in great detail in my book, Flames Beyond Gettysburg, and I cover the history of the station in my book, Soldiers, Spies & Steam: A History of the Northern Central Railway in the Civil War. There are also many photographs and articles on Hanover Junction on my Cannonball blog that I write for the York Daily Record. Click here to see my blog posts specific to Hanover Junction.
@Scott Mingus, I enjoyed reading on Randy Drais's Battle of Gettysburg Buff Facebook page a post about the reenactment of the Hanover Junction whistle stop photos that you and he, along with many others, were involved in last fall. Photos and a description of the event are here. Well done!
 

civilken

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Absolutely!
When we were in York County it looked so much like home, I almost forgot that I was in the US. Absolutely no wonder that the Pennsylvania Dutch felt immediately at home there! It is not only similar to the Palatinate, but maybe even more to Lower Saxony, where I live, as the countryside is flat in parts.

I think it has been discussed already, but could somebody tell me once again please why William Frassanito thinks the tall man with the top hat standing in front of the railway building in the old photo no.2 should NOT be Lincoln? He looks exactly like him, IMHO!
tthat makes two of us who agree definitely lincoln..
 
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George Thomas

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Absolutely!
When we were in York County it looked so much like home, I almost forgot that I was in the US. Absolutely no wonder that the Pennsylvania Dutch felt immediately at home there! It is not only similar to the Palatinate, but maybe even more to Lower Saxony, where I live, as the countryside is flat in parts.

I think it has been discussed already, but could somebody tell me once again please why William Frassanito thinks the tall man with the top hat standing in front of the railway building in the old photo no.2 should NOT be Lincoln? He looks exactly like him, IMHO!
Thanks for all the comments/replies. Here is the exact language used by Frassanito in "The Gettysburg Then and Now Companion," p. 58.

"While a careful analysis of all six of the Hanover Junction photographs, most of which were recorded in stereo format, has failed to identify anyone who seriously looks like Lincoln, all of the available evidence, including the barren foliage, does tend to support the November 1863 dating. The questions remain: who took the series and why? Interestingly enough, the earliest surviving identifications all credit 'Brady & Co." And yet neither Brady, nor any cameramen affiliated with Brady's firm, are know to have covered the November 1863 dedication of the National Cemetery at Gettysburg."
 
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The beard might be good enough for Capt. Ahab but not for Abe Lincoln. Lincoln's beard comes closer to his lower lip and is more visible on his cheeks?
View attachment 169866
Both beards are not as awesome as Longstreet's!
Well, if you look closely, there is a shadow between the pale skin and the dark beard, as if that person has tied a neckerchief over his mouth. We know that Lincoln felt unwell at Gettysburg, he came down with smallpox (was is smallpox?) soon after, so he might have covered his mouth and nose with a neckerchief to protect himself from breathing the cold November air... or maybe even to protect his fellow travellers from his spittle while coughing.
Pure speculation and I will not reason any further. May the photos and this person keep their secret a while longer.
 
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Mike Serpa

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Well, if you look closely, there is a shadow between the pale skin and the dark beard, as if that person has tied a neckerchief over his mouth. We know that Lincoln felt unwell at Gettysburg, he came down with smallpox (was is smallpox?) soon after, so he might have covered his mouth and nose with a neckerchief to protect himself from breathing the cold November air... or maybe even to protect his fellow travellers from his spittle while coughing.
Pure speculation and I will not reason any further. May the photos and this person keep their secret a while longer.
Neither guy puts food on my table. Too bad the quality is less than desirable. Maybe a body double? :smile:
 

rebelatsea

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Hanover Junction train station looking north

View attachment 168589

I recently had an opportunity to visit the railroad station at Hanover Junction, PA, which is about 28 miles east of Gettysburg. I have always found the site intriguing since seeing an old photograph in William Frassanito's "The Gettysburg Then and Now Companion" (1997), scene 50. Apparently Lincoln's train switched tracks there in November 1863 and some have speculated that Lincoln appears in one of the photos taken at the site. Frassanito concludes that Lincoln does not appear in the photo, but says it remains a mystery "who took the series [of photographs] and why."

Scott Mingus also had an interesting article in Gettysburg magazine in January 2010 that described some of the action in the area around the time of the Gettysburg campaign ("White's Comanches on the Warpath at Hanover Junction").

The junction is a bit off the beaten path, but has been restored as part of the Heritage Rail Trail County Park. Hanover Junction is one of the access points for a beautiful walking/biking trail that follows the old North Central Railroad from the Maryland state line to York, PA. It is a very interesting trail with some nice scenery along the way. I followed the trail north from Hanover Junction to Brillhart Station. Below are some photos of the station and some sites along the trail. I have also attached some of the old photographs available at the Library of Congress web site.

Hanover Junction train station looking northwest

View attachment 168590

Scenery along the trail near Seven Valleys, PA

View attachment 168591

Howard Tunnel looking north

View attachment 168592

Howard tunnel wayside marker, stating that "Before the Battle of Gettysburg, Union troops manned a cannon on top of the hill to protect the tunnel from Confederates who had been wrecking railroad bridges and telegraph lines."

View attachment 168593

Companion photos from Library of Congress site, available at:

https://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/01500/01531v.jpg

https://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b10000/3b16000/3b16000/3b16077r.jpg

https://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3a50000/3a50000/3a50400/3a50436r.jpg

https://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/01500/01536r.jpg

Looking North

View attachment 168594

Looking North, closer view

View attachment 168595

Looking Northwest, house on right side of photo is still there, but it is private property and the yard is overgrown, so I could not include it in the modern version.

View attachment 168596
Photo is titled "Hanover Junction, Pennsylvania. Bridge at Hanover Junction burned by Confederates before the battle of Gettysburg." I did not find this exact site, but the scenery is certainly similar to what one sees along the trail as you walk north from the junction.

View attachment 168597
Am I the only one here who thinks it would look better with a train, or trains ?
 
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USS ALASKA

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Hanover Junction is quite a bit beyond Hanover. Google maps puts it at an additional 14 miles beyond Hanover itself.
746px-Baltimore_&_Harrisburg_Rwy_map.jpg


upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Baltimore_%26_Harrisburg_Rwy_map.jpg/746px-Baltimore_%26_Harrisburg_Rwy_map.jpg

Cheers,
USS ALASKA
 
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Absolutely!
When we were in York County it looked so much like home, I almost forgot that I was in the US. Absolutely no wonder that the Pennsylvania Dutch felt immediately at home there! It is not only similar to the Palatinate, but maybe even more to Lower Saxony, where I live, as the countryside is flat in parts.

I think it has been discussed already, but could somebody tell me once again please why William Frassanito thinks the tall man with the top hat standing in front of the railway building in the old photo no.2 should NOT be Lincoln? He looks exactly like him, IMHO!
One of my 20 books I have written includes a chapter detailing these photographs. For starters, there are zero accounts from anyone on the train that confirm that he even got off at Hanover Junction. A couple local accounts decades later say he did, but all of Lincoln's fellow passengers that left known accounts say he stayed on board. I have come to believe this is the press train that passed through our area on November 17, 1863, not Lincoln's train. Newspaper accounts state that when Lincoln's train arrived, there were huge crowds waiting, so large, in fact, that dozens of pickpockets plied their trade. A large pile of empty wallets was later found near the tracks. None of the photos of "Lincoln" show any kind of crowds. When Governor Curtin's train arrived after Lincoln had left, reporters on board say there were so many people at the depot clamoring to get on board (no further trains that evening) that armed guards were posted at the doors to keep them from boarding. Also, if the photos show Lincoln, there where are his three cabinet members that were on the train with him? William Seward, in particular, should be in the photos one would think. The Marine Band that accompanied Lincoln to Hanover Junction and on to Gettysburg is missing from the photos. So is Lincoln's military escort, General James Fry. I shot a video on the controversial photos that is shown on the screen at the restored train station when it is open to the public.

Still, for some reason, photographers deemed Hanover Junction and the small gathering worthy enough to shoot six photographs (three of which show the gentleman some believe to be Lincoln). The question is why. That has been pondered among local historians here in York County for decades.

See my blog post for the York Daily Record. Click here.
 
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ARW

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Just came across this thread. Here are a few pictures I took on one of my trips there. As you can see I had played with these a little. I would say if you are planning a trip to Gettysburg and have some extra time it is a interesting ride. They have a lot of reenactment trips. If you look close this was a Christmas trip.
17.jpg
Confederate.jpg
Union.jpg
DSCN9391d.jpg
 

Mike Serpa

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One of my 20 books I have written includes a chapter detailing these photographs. For starters, there are zero accounts from anyone on the train that confirm that he even got off at Hanover Junction. A couple local accounts decades later say he did, but all of Lincoln's fellow passengers that left known accounts say he stayed on board. I have come to believe this is the press train that passed through our area on November 17, 1863, not Lincoln's train. Newspaper accounts state that when Lincoln's train arrived, there were huge crowds waiting, so large, in fact, that dozens of pickpockets plied their trade. A large pile of empty wallets was later found near the tracks. None of the photos of "Lincoln" show any kind of crowds. When Governor Curtin's train arrived after Lincoln had left, reporters on board say there were so many people at the depot clamoring to get on board (no further trains that evening) that armed guards were posted at the doors to keep them from boarding. Also, if the photos show Lincoln, there where are his three cabinet members that were on the train with him? William Seward, in particular, should be in the photos one would think. The Marine Band that accompanied Lincoln to Hanover Junction and on to Gettysburg is missing from the photos. So is Lincoln's military escort, General James Fry. I shot a video on the controversial photos that is shown on the screen at the restored train station when it is open to the public.

Still, for some reason, photographers deemed Hanover Junction and the small gathering worthy enough to shoot six photographs (three of which show the gentleman some believe to be Lincoln). The question is why. That has been pondered among local historians here in York County for decades.

See my blog post for the York Daily Record. Click here.
I enjoyed the article on you blog. I lifted this, "I think this is the press train of November 17, 1883."
The LOC dates three of the Hanover Junction photos before November, 1863. In fact, the same photo has two different dates. The remaining Hanover Junction photos are dated '1863.'

01534v.jpg

LOC - 01534

35054v.jpg

LOC - 35054

35055v.jpg

LOC - 35055

I wondering if you dismissed these earlier dates because of the lack of leaves on the trees? Are their clothes too light for Gettysburg weather in November?

I know the LOC is not always correct with IDs, places, names and dates. I searced the MOLLUS-Mass photos and the James E. Taylor collection for IDs or dates but found neither.
 
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