Grant Grant's drinking during the Civil War

I see that my friend, Bee, has been active in this thread. I hope I won't disappoint her when I say the following: I don't know and I don't care whether Grant was ever drunk. I am pretty sure he was drinking what I call "adult beverages" on several occasions. Grant always managed to get the job done, didn't he? Therefore, I'll just say that we should find out what he was drinking and we should issue it to other officers. I admit it's a simplistic attitude about Grant's drinking, but there you have my opinion.
 
To be honest, I'd be surprised if any of them, including Grant, weren't drinking! In terms of what they saw, experienced, had to endure, being away from family and friends, little in the way of consolations (no doubt Julia's visits helped to bolster Grant's ability to cope) ...otherwise there weren't a lot of options in terms of coping mechanisms. Smoking was another obvious one for Grant. If he hadn't done his job, then the focus could be on his drinking as an explanation for why he wasn't a worthy Commander. He did his job. That makes him worthy whether he drank or not, in my opinion. Drinking only makes him human.
 
I see that my friend, Bee, has been active in this thread. I hope I won't disappoint her when I say the following: I don't know and I don't care whether Grant was ever drunk. I am pretty sure he was drinking what I call "adult beverages" on several occasions. Grant always managed to get the job done, didn't he? Therefore, I'll just say that we should find out what he was drinking and we should issue it to other officers. I admit it's a simplistic attitude about Grant's drinking, but there you have my opinion.

I think President Lincoln agreed with you!
 
I've always been curious as to what the facts are about Grant drinking during the war. I know in the Ken Burns' series Shelby Foote mentions that he went on a bender during the Vicksburg campaign. Foote also brought up possibly the lack quality personal time with Mrs Grant due to her being absent is maybe what made Grant drink. To this day I'm annoyed that Shelby went there in his reasoning. He certainly wouldn't have mentioned the personal part of Robert E Lee's marriage.
So anyways, I'm interested if Grant's drinking is mentioned in memoirs, letters, quotes etc. We all know he supposedly quit the army in the 50s due to his habits. But from what I've seen, there is not a lot of actual testimony to Grant imbibing in war time.

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My understanding is that Grant- like many in the military and away from home- was a heavy drinker during some of his remote postings. However, the episodes reported during the rebellion were myth, spread by his enemies, based largely on the bragging letters of his wartime aide who was trying to impress his Temperance Society sister, explaining what a great job he was doing keeping Grant sober.
Sorry I can't give sources, but- as I recall- the first I read this explanation was long ago, in Bruce Catton, Grant Takes Command. (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1969). I've seen it elsewhere since....
 
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I think Grant was the man who got the job done. It wasn't Halleck or anybody else. Isn't it funny how Grant' s generals had no trouble following him into battle. How Sherman really trusted him. Successful generals are always viewed with jealousy. It is still the same. All people have feet of clay and problems. None of us are perfect. Grant was a man and a great soldier. He did his job, and far better than any other. Whether he was drinker or not he somehow managed his problems well, with or without help.
 
Grant was saddled with the "drinking" allegation from his days in the Old Army. Undoubtedly, alcohol was an antidote to the loneliness that he (and many other officers) felt in those days of being posted far from home and family, and with little chance of advancement.

McClellan probably saw Grant drunk when he came through Fort Humboldt in the 1850s and Grant outfitted him for an exploratory expedition. He may have been one of the sources of the rumor, and would have had the motivation as Grant's star rose and his fell.
 
McClellan probably saw Grant drunk when he came through Fort Humboldt in the 1850s and Grant outfitted him for an exploratory expedition. He may have been one of the sources of the rumor, and would have had the motivation as Grant's star rose and his fell.

You may have remembered this passage from the Chernow book:

One other consequential encounter returned to hurt Grant a decade later. One of his quartermaster duties was to supply pack animals and other provisions for parties surveying a railroad route through the Cascade mountains for what became the Northern Pacific Railway. In July 1853, one such survey was led by the twenty-six-year-old brevet captain George B. McClellan. Unlike Grant, McClellan had graduated near the top of his West Point class and showed little patience for slipshod performance. While his expedition was being outfitted at For Vancouver, said Henry C Hodges, "Grant got on one of his little sprees, which annoyed and offended McClellan Exceedingly, and in my opinion he never quite forgave Grant for it." Though suffering from a severe cold, Grant delivered two hundred horses and other supplies on time, but he had made a powerful enemy who would associate him with this alcoholic binge. Chernow. Grant, [pp80-81]​
 
McClellan bugs me for that reason - the guy was pure as the new driven snow. Really. No drinking, no fooling around, no deck of cards in his back pocket, no nothin'! I can't help but think Lincoln was reminded from time to time of a passenger in the coach with him while he was doing his circuit lawyer times. Offered Abe a drink, cards, all the various frowned upon pasttimes. Nope, don't drink, don't gamble, don't chew. They had an amiable enough journey together and at the end of it the guy said, "I've found that folks who have no vices seldom have many virtues!" That kind of strikes me as possibly true with McClellan. A P Hill thought he was behind slipping Miss Nelly the dirt about his health issues - no, not me! And it wasn't. But it wasn't the only time somebody thought McClellan did them some kind of dirt - even though he hadn't! Maybe there was something about Grant's imperfections - and his lack of ability (or desire) to hide them - that made Lincoln trust him.
 
This next passage fits the bill of complaint that I have with 1. How it came to be that Grant was perceived as a persistent drunk 2. How authors wittingly or unwittingly -- you be the judge -- play into age-old grudges and myth by repeating the allegations in the format of fact, and after the assertion has taken hold, retract it as an act of malice. The feathers cannot be stuffed back into the pillow at this point:

In explaining away stories of her husband's drinking, Julia often griped that people misinterpreted his migraine headaches as instances of alcoholic abuse. Whether coincidentally or not, their brief stay in Memphis coincided with fresh allegations of drinking against Grant. On February 11, General Charles S Hamilton scribbled a damming letter to Senator James R. Doolittle of Wisconsin:

You have asked me to write you confidentially. I will now say what I have never breathed. Grant is a drunkard. His wife has been with him for months only to use her influence tin keeping him sober. He tries to let liquor alone--but he cannot resist the temptation always. When he came to Memphis he left his wife at LaGrange, & for several days after getting here, was beastly drunk, utterly incapable of doing anything. [Brigadier General Isaac F.] Wuinby and I, took hi in charge, watching him day & night, & keeping liquor away from him, & we telegraphed to his wife & brought her on to take care of him [12]
It must be noted that Hamilton, a disaffected general, hoped to supplant the popular James B. McPherson as one of Grant's corps commanders and that Grant resisted his efforts, supplying Hamilton with a timely motive for slander. By late March [1863] Grant removed the embittered Hamilton, alluding to his "natural jealous disposition," and recommended to Washington that his resignation be accepted [13] Ron Chernow, Grant, [pp244-245]


[12] PUSG, 308. Letter from Brig Gen. Charles S Hamilton to U.S. Senator James R Doolittle February 11, 1863
[13] PUSG, 468, Letter to Maj Gen Henry W Halleck, March 24, 1863​
 
This next passage fits the bill of complaint that I have with 1. How it came to be that Grant was perceived as a persistent drunk 2. How authors wittingly or unwittingly -- you be the judge -- play into age-old grudges and myth by repeating the allegations in the format of fact, and after the assertion has taken hold, retract it as an act of malice. The feathers cannot be stuffed back into the pillow at this point:

In explaining away stories of her husband's drinking, Julia often griped that people misinterpreted his migraine headaches as instances of alcoholic abuse. Whether coincidentally or not, their brief stay in Memphis coincided with fresh allegations of drinking against Grant. On February 11, General Charles S Hamilton scribbled a damming letter to Senator James R. Doolittle of Wisconsin:

You have asked me to write you confidentially. I will now say what I have never breathed. Grant is a drunkard. His wife has been with him for months only to use her influence tin keeping him sober. He tries to let liquor alone--but he cannot resist the temptation always. When he came to Memphis he left his wife at LaGrange, & for several days after getting here, was beastly drunk, utterly incapable of doing anything. [Brigadier General Isaac F.] Wuinby and I, took hi in charge, watching him day & night, & keeping liquor away from him, & we telegraphed to his wife & brought her on to take care of him [12]
It must be noted that Hamilton, a disaffected general, hoped to supplant the popular James B. McPherson as one of Grant's corps commanders and that Grant resisted his efforts, supplying Hamilton with a timely motive for slander. By late March [1863] Grant removed the embittered Hamilton, alluding to his "natural jealous disposition," and recommended to Washington that his resignation be accepted [13] Ron Chernow, Grant, [pp244-245]


[12] PUSG, 308. Letter from Brig Gen. Charles S Hamilton to U.S. Senator James R Doolittle February 11, 1863
[13] PUSG, 468, Letter to Maj Gen Henry W Halleck, March 24, 1863​

Chernow is infuriating because the first half of the book is all like that. This would be the formula.

Brief paragraph about verifiable fact followed by paragraph speculating about whether there was a drinking connection. Page-long anecdote, letter or diary entry with vivid descriptions of drunkenness, accompanied by two sentences mentioning that the account has been debunked by historians (the writer had ulterior motives and could not possibly have been where he said he was.). Vivid anecdote contines.
 
Interesting how the issue of Grant and the bottle arises every now and then. Grant was no saint nor was he in the the process for beatification and canonization but he was an effective general with the best strategic insight of any general in the war.

Bee - you attended Humboldt State? I attended College of the Redwoods for three months.
 
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Agenda(s). Not merely one hence no real conspiracy theory to debunk. If Grant had a genuine weakness - interestingly worried about by one of History's all-time best and greatest, infallible, indefatigable humbug haters, Sam Clemens, in whose exasperated opinion Grant was guileless, a babe in the woods. His military prowess, much vaunted was even quite straight forward hence simple- a ferocious offence and unshakable faith/determination/solidity. You could have sold Grant the Brooklyn Bridge in his private life and it wasn't built yet, if he believed what you said- all the slimy characters encountered in a long career encompassing ambitious men encountered in the military and government did not cure him. I'm not sure he's mysterious at all, just as simple as all his campaigns and a short read of Mark Twain.

You'll never get past the demi-god ancestor worship far enough to get a good take on his background, but rigid morality ( eventually sucking the Temperance Movement into its vortex ), was a large part of his makeup. It wasn't McClellan's oppressive prissiness. It was just the genuine cultural overlay imbued from birth we tend to overlook in examinations of these figures in 2017. Guessing because, with some exceptions, it's vanished now, not a concept taken into consideration when trying to ascertain who was, or was not U. Grant.
 
Ahhhhhhhhh Grant's drinking and being drunk. I think Grant was like people who are pulled over by the police for drunk driving and asked had they been drinking and how many they had, They always answer.....yes had been drinking, but only had one drink......................I think Grant drank more times than he was drunk.................I think Grant was drunk more times than was reported...................I do not know how many times a person has to be drunk to be a drunk, but I DO NOT think Grant a drunk............

Respectfully,
William
U. S. Grant 1.jpg
 
Ahhhhhhhhh Grant's drinking and being drunk. I think Grant was like people who are pulled over by the police for drunk driving and asked had they been drinking and how many they had, They always answer.....yes had been drinking, but only had one drink......................I think Grant drank more times than he was drunk.................I think Grant was drunk more times than was reported...................I do not know how many times a person has to be drunk to be a drunk, but I DO NOT think Grant a drunk............

Respectfully,
William
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Well, now! That says the whole thing about as clearly as I've ever seen it. :D

There were a large number of real drunks on both sides whose problem was swept under a gigantic rug - that's not rum you smell, friend - that's Bay rum! There were a large number of generals who were very clearly drunk in combat and not one of them didn't screw up. Drunks don't fight well, that's just all there is to it. Washington was never drunk in battle, either, but it's clear he drank very heavily - particularly after the war. He wouldn't be the first soldier to sit holding a bottle and giving the fireplace a 1000 yard stare, either.

Julia is my go-to support for the migraine theory. Migraines and epilepsy were two disorders nobody would cop to then because the stigma against those two disorders was worse than against alcoholism. Alcohol - quit drinking, sober up! The others - there's the asylum you need to be at. There's a whole library of different types of migraine, too - it's a neurological problem and can manifest in exactly what people saw in Grant. Forrest and Lee both had migraines that produced the same behavior Grant had - staggering, vomiting, slurred speech, etc. but no one ever accused them of being drunk because it was well known they never touched the stuff. If Lee had not been a teetotaler, we would have a landslide of accounts of his drunkenness at Gettysburg!
 
Julia is my go-to support for the migraine theory.

I have read somewhere of this migraine theory as well. It could very well have been the issue with Grant at times. I also agree to what the reaction in the War Between the States era would have been to migraine/epilepsy, as you sated..........Asylum........No one then nor now wants to be perceived as having a mental condition................My one draw back on the migraine theory is, just that, it is a theory, correct?
I have not attempted an in-depth research of Grant's life, so I am guessing nothing in his history, nor anything found by all the researching on Grant has come up with anything solid that Grant did have migraines..........Or else it would not be a theory............

I could be totally wrong on that assumption as I sated I have not attempted an in-depth study on Grant......yet............If I am incorrect please put me on the right pathway....................

All I can say is.......he is my favored Union general !!! And IMO 1 of the top American generals of all times.

Respectfully,
William
U. S. Grant 1.jpg
 
If a general messes up, does it matter if he was drunk, had a headache, was having lunch 10 miles from the battle, or whatever?
Accountability means that drinking does not matter only maximizing the assets on hand.
 
I have read somewhere of this migraine theory as well. It could very well have been the issue with Grant at times. I also agree to what the reaction in the War Between the States era would have been to migraine/epilepsy, as you sated..........Asylum........No one then nor now wants to be perceived as having a mental condition................My one draw back on the migraine theory is, just that, it is a theory, correct?
I have not attempted an in-depth research of Grant's life, so I am guessing nothing in his history, nor anything found by all the researching on Grant has come up with anything solid that Grant did have migraines..........Or else it would not be a theory............

I could be totally wrong on that assumption as I sated I have not attempted an in-depth study on Grant......yet............If I am incorrect please put me on the right pathway....................

All I can say is.......he is my favored Union general !!! And IMO 1 of the top American generals of all times.

Respectfully,
William
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I can't cite chapter and verse either! It appears Lee and Forrest developed the migraines during the war - both had other serious health issues like diabetes and heart trouble developing at that time as well. However, Grant had migraine all his life and it appeared to be related to his tone deafness, another neurological difficulty. Music always either brought one on or made one worse. Sometimes I've thought all that gun smoke during a battle was a trigger...well, so to speak! Don't know how an asthmatic like Sherman made it through them either....
 
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