Grant Grant: Not a fan of the Red River campaign

This is what Grant had to say in his Memoirs:

General Banks had gone on an expedition up the Red River long before my promotion to general command. I had opposed the movement strenuously, but acquiesced because it was the order of my superior at the time.

Wow, just wow. "I told you so." Thanks for posting this.
 
Ludwell Johnson's Red River Campaign explains the politics and motivations behind the whole thing. To boil it down, it was done simply to shut people up who'd designs on Texas. There was no strategic, military justification for any of it. At least not put forth by thinking persons.

Is it really your opinion that Halleck, Grant, and Sherman were not thinking persons?
All three put forth "strategic, military justification" for the campaign.
 
Halleck seems to have agreed. On Jan. 8 he wrote to Grant,
At the end of the part of that letter you quoted, Halleck presents his strategic justifications for the Red River campaign:
"If the forces of Smith, Price, and Magruder could be so scattered or broken as to enable Steele and Banks to occupy Red River as a line of defense, a part of their armies would probably become available for operations elsewhere."​


Referring to this letter, Ludwell Johnson (since Drew brought him up) felt that Halleck was lying to Grant:
"it is safe to say that Halleck without justification cited the original reason given for ordering the Texas invasion as an argument to coerce Grant into accepting an unwelcome and unwise plan of campaign. In truth, there was no longer any reason why the Texas campaign had to be 'continued during the winter.'"​
 
If General Banks has not advanced on Shreveport and beaten the enemy then Steele will be exposed to a superior force as to make it necessary to re-enforce him. .

Interesting that Grant accurately foresaw what Kirby Smith would attempt if Banks were thwarted. And Smith very nearly pulled off the outcome Grant feared. Steele just out-skedaddled the Rebs...by a whisker.
 
Is it really your opinion that Halleck, Grant, and Sherman were not thinking persons?
All three put forth "strategic, military justification" for the campaign.

They really didn't, actually. I've cited Ludwell Johnson's work, drawn from primary sources, including Lincoln's, Stanton's and Chase's Papers, demonstrating the considerable pressure they were under from Northern business interests, particularly the textile industry, to make available a source of cotton by invading and settling Texas. I don't recall a direct source for Halleck's orders, but we can take a wild guess. Grant and Sherman followed theirs. It's worth noting the latter used his "get out of jail free" card from Grant to extricate himself right quick from New Orleans, rather than follow Banks in the folly to come. Not a ringing endorsement of "strategic, military justification" for the plan, if you ask me.
 
They really didn't, actually.
They really actually did.

The stuff you keep pushing about political interest in Texas is distraction. Banks had satisfied Seward and Lincoln by taking Brownsville. The cotton pressures existed and speculators took advantage of the campaign, but that was not the justification that was put forth by Sherman, Halleck or Grant.

You seem quite impressed with Johnson's book. So I will quote it to you. Johnson wrote "there is evidence strongly indicating that the administration did not regard expanded operations in Texas as being of pressing importance" but Halleck "wanted to attack by way of the Red River and northwestern Louisiana. His views were the result of his considered military judgement", according to Johnson. See also what I quoted from Johnson's book in post #23 above. In the end it was a military campaign pushed forward by military commanders for military purposes.

Halleck had declared that "The best military opinions of the generals in the West seem to favor operations on the Red River". He pushed it for the military reason that it would better secure the defense of Arkansas:
"It was at one time hoped that you [Steele] might co-operate with General Banks in holding that line, and thus secure Arkansas and Missouri from further rebel raids, but when General Banks changed his plan of operations to the Gulf coast an advance on your part would have been extremely perilous, and you acted wisely in occupying the defensive position of the Arkansas.It is hoped that measures may hereafter be concerted between yourself, General Sherman, and General Banks to drive the enemy entirely out of Arkansas and then occupy the line of Red River, which is shorter and probably easier of defense."

Sherman was very eager for the campaign, an attitude that had nothing to do with Texas or pressure from business interests. In the months prior to the campaign he had made the following statements:
"The only real battle needed in the Southwest will be at Shreveport, and for it we want high water in Red River."

“In my judgment, we have two more battles to win before we should even bother our minds with the idea of restoring civil order—viz., one near Meridian, in November, and one near Shreveport, in February and March next, when Red River is navigable by our gunboats.”

"If the admiral will agree, I will myself collect at Memphis and Vicksburg about 8,000 men and go up Red River as high as the water will permit, and make them feel their vulnerability."

"I will take all the force I can collect at Memphis and Vicksburg and go up the Red River as high as Shreveport, and make that rich country pay in gold or cotton for all depredations on our river commerce."
Porter would later testify to Congress that "The Red River expedition was originally proposed by General Sherman and myself" and John Hay (one of Lincoln's secretaries) wrote in his diary that it was all Sherman's idea. Sherman wanted to lead the campaign himself when he found that Banks intended to go along and he didn't want to serve under Banks so he backed out.
 
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Banks had satisfied Seward and Lincoln by taking Brownsville. The cotton pressures existed and speculators took advantage of the campaign, but that was not the justification that was put forth by Sherman, Halleck or Grant.

Banks had satisfied Lincoln by taking the littoral shores of Texas, as I think Johnson put it. Your Johnson quote, "there is evidence strongly indicating that the administration did not regard expanded operations in Texas as being of pressing importance" is absolutely correct, from a military standpoint. It made little sense and that was the view in Washington and in the high command of the Union Army at the time.

But the pressure brought to bear, the politics of the thing, required that it go forward, despite the best judgement of nearly everyone involved, as far as we know. We can't pin it to Lincoln, because there is no evidence, but Banks' expeditionary force was supposed to depart for Texas. Almost no one knew, beyond Banks and a few senior officers, that the expedition would be diverted to New Orleans, to help secure the Mississippi River. They would not be going to Texas, but no one was told at the time.

That diversion made every bit of strategic, military sense, but had to be hidden from the participants. After all, they were going to Texas to plant cotton. The last thing they wanted to do was fight actual Confederates, according to Johnson.

Quoting Union generals who were subject to both civilian direction and military discipline isn't very revealing - there's enough up thread to demonstrate their doubts.
 
Banks had satisfied Lincoln by taking the littoral shores of Texas, as I think Johnson put it.
Johnson did not put it that way.


Your Johnson quote, "there is evidence strongly indicating that the administration did not regard expanded operations in Texas as being of pressing importance" is absolutely correct, from a military standpoint.
You have added the last part -- it is not what Johnson says.


But the pressure brought to bear, the politics of the thing, required that it go forward, despite the best judgement of nearly everyone involved, as far as we know.

Wrong. This isnt what we know. I quoted Johnson saying it was Halleck's military judgement that led him to favor the campaign, so you cant rely on Johnson for support for your theory.


We can't pin it to Lincoln, because there is no evidence, but Banks' expeditionary force was supposed to depart for Texas. Almost no one knew, beyond Banks and a few senior officers, that the expedition would be diverted to New Orleans, to help secure the Mississippi River. They would not be going to Texas, but no one was told at the time.

The December 1862 expedition is not relevant to this topic which deals with events over a year later.


Quoting Union generals who were subject to both civilian direction and military discipline isn't very revealing - there's enough up thread to demonstrate their doubts.

Sherman and Halleck's own statements are revealing. What is not revealing is providing no quotations, citations or references to support your own theory.
 
Well, at least we all agree with the original topic of this thread which is that Grant was not in favor of the campaign.
 
"I look upon such an expedition as is proposed as of the greatest importance" -- Grant to Sherman, February 18

"I regard the success of your present move as of great importance in reducing the number of troops necessary for protecting the navigation of the Mississippi River. It is also important that Shreveport should be taken as soon as possible." -- Grant to Banks, March 18

"It is of the first importance that we should hold Red River." -- Grant to Hunter, April 17

"Lieutenant-General Grant directs that orders heretofore given be so modified that no troops be withdrawn from operations against Shreveport and on Red River, and that operations there be continued under the senior officer in command until further orders.” -- Halleck to Banks and Steele, April 30


Grant was a fan of the idea of the campaign.
He was not a fan of how it turned out.
But who was.
Hmmmm. Well, Taylor, Smith, Walker... Price...., and a few more gray backs. Also, a large portion of the North LA / NE Texas / South Arkansas citizenry.
 
Banks certainly did have interest in collecting the cotton bails along the way stating the haul could finance the war. He most certainly had his own political aspirations as well.

What intrigues me about the campaign is the Union could have suffered much greater losses than they did if it were not for Col Joseph Bailey engenuity. If it were not for Bailey's logging experience Porter would have certainly lost his fleet of war boats. If it were not for his dams the boats would have been lost above the falls. The Red failed to rise that year just like it had 7 years earlier and 7 years prior to that. Porter had knowledge of this possibility and attempted it anyway. Bailey saved the day again by engineering a bridge which allowed the AOP to escape the swollen river. Taylor who was awaiting re-enforments from Arkansaw.

Taylor had every intention of attacking the stranded Union Soldiers. This campaign but for the grace of God and the genius of Col Bailey could have been disasterioius.
 
Banks certainly did have interest in collecting the cotton bails along the way stating the haul could finance the war. He most certainly had his own political aspirations as well.

What intrigues me about the campaign is the Union could have suffered much greater losses than they did if it were not for Col Joseph Bailey engenuity. If it were not for Bailey's logging experience Porter would have certainly lost his fleet of war boats. If it were not for his dams the boats would have been lost above the falls. The Red failed to rise that year just like it had 7 years earlier and 7 years prior to that. Porter had knowledge of this possibility and attempted it anyway. Bailey saved the day again by engineering a bridge which allowed the AOP to escape the swollen river. Taylor who was awaiting re-enforments from Arkansaw.

Taylor had every intention of attacking the stranded Union Soldiers. This campaign but for the grace of God and the genius of Col Bailey could have been disasterioius.

Threads on this somewhere in the Naval Forum- maybe several. My favorite part of the wholeeee campaign.
 
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