Pickett George Pickett Descendent Ripped Off?

TerryB

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I recently watched the show and mentioned it on another thread. This one seems to be getting more response. Apparently, he told the host, Jamie Colby, that he had never had any interest in Pickett or the history that went with the collection. But I still think Diane has a point. He definitely needed to do his homework before putting the material up for sale or auction.
 

Rob9641

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Ah, memories of law school. If the buyer had particular knowledge that the seller did not have (either general knowledge about the subject of what he was buying or particular knowledge about the item in question), then low-balls the seller and turns around and resells for a bigger price - the seller has a case and might get money for being duped. The law doesn't like "gotchas."
 

unicornforge

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Two points:
1) If memory serves me, the news at the time said that the dealer misrepresented himself as the buyer's agent, thus according to the news articles, fraud.
2) All the antique dealers that I have met, as a standard pay only ten cents on the dollar for their antiques. That appears to be the standard markup. As the result, I would not expect to get more than 10% of retail value for anything I sold them.
 

E_just_E

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Ah, memories of law school. If the buyer had particular knowledge that the seller did not have (either general knowledge about the subject of what he was buying or particular knowledge about the item in question), then low-balls the seller and turns around and resells for a bigger price - the seller has a case and might get money for being duped. The law doesn't like "gotchas."

If that were true all the used car dealers would be in chains.
 

Package4

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Two points:
1) If memory serves me, the news at the time said that the dealer misrepresented himself as the buyer's agent, thus according to the news articles, fraud.
2) All the antique dealers that I have met, as a standard pay only ten cents on the dollar for their antiques. That appears to be the standard markup. As the result, I would not expect to get more than 10% of retail value for anything I sold them.
As a long time collector, I have found that for the most part Civil War dealers are very reputable and most like to turn their inventory quickly, in fact a 10-15% mark up is not rare. There certainly are cases where "pickers" will obtain a piece for little and turn it for a tidy profit to one of the dealers. Rule of thumb is to deal with those that guarantee their pieces as authentic for life and have the reputation to back it up. CSArms, Horse Soldier, Battleground Antiques, Dave Taylor's CW Antiques, College Hill Arsenal to name a few that stand behind their pieces.

The Horse Soldier can be high on some pieces, but usually a result of the consigner not budging off of a 2006 market price.
 

Package4

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I remember this story vividly because I was up in Gettysburg when it happened. George Edward Pickett V was invited to be the guest of honor of the Friends of Gettysburg National Park for their annual banquet in June 1998. When Ed gave his speech he made mention that he recently sold some of his ancestor's items. After the dinner Ed, upon hearing that Earl Coates, president at the time, was a Civil War cloth expert, asked him what a confederate kepi was worth and Earl asking if it was the general's kepi, told him between $80,000 and $100,000. Ed exclaimed that was more than he received for the entire lot, which included a bloody sleeve, though to have been part of the uniform Pickett wore when wounded at Gaines Mill. Cutting to the chase, Earl called the Harrisburg museum to see what was paid for the items and was told over $850,000.
Juno and Pritchard, using their fame as appraisers for the Antiques Roadshow had been contacted by Ed Pickett, for an appraisal, Ed who had been running from his unwanted fame, his entire life, had no idea what the articles were worth. He was told $85,000, which was two times what he made per year and though that when they offered to purchase for that much, was a great deal.

Imagine growing up in the South as a descendant of Pickett and the teasing you received, particularly with the name George E Picket V. He made sure that in adult life he went by Ed Picket. The articles in the chest were not things he was particularly fond of other than the photographs od his ancestors, which he refuse to sell. Pritchard and Juno said that they would "restore" the photos and return them. The CDVs that were returned were laser copies that Ed had with him that weekend in Gettysburg; they went over to the Horse Soldier where Wes Small viewed them under a Magnifier and stated that they were copies.

George Edward Pickett the Fifth was now ready for a lawyer and the FBI became involved. The photos were forged (copies) and returned to Ed via mail, we now have theft and mail fraud.

These two have ripped off countless individuals, in fact Juno tried to get a SC belt rig from me at the Richmond Show in 1999 when I was a very novice collector, Dave Taylor, rescued me and pointed me to Steve Mullinax, who verified that it was a real SC rig on original leather and an appraisal. He did not offer to buy it as Juno did.

I was honored to know Don and Elaine Patterson, through the reenacting community and being their neighbor, after Don's untimely death, Juno and Pritchard approached Elaine as buyers for the Harrisburg, PA National Civil War museum. They purchased a significant portion of the Patterson collection for the "museum" claiming it would draw reenactors to the museum to see the "Patterson" collection. None of the items made it to the museum and were sold to private collectors.
The collection, appraised and purchased by the two for $57,000 was worth as much as $1.2 million; they claimed many of the articles were reproductions and therefore, could not go to the museum. One such article was a confederate overcoat they sold for $80,000.

I believe Pritchard III is still serving time for subsequent dealings and Juno can be seen at all of the memorabilia shows as if nothing happened.
 

Legion Para

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I remember this story vividly because I was up in Gettysburg when it happened. George Edward Pickett V was invited to be the guest of honor of the Friends of Gettysburg National Park for their annual banquet in June 1998. When Ed gave his speech he made mention that he recently sold some of his ancestor's items. After the dinner Ed, upon hearing that Earl Coates, president at the time, was a Civil War cloth expert, asked him what a confederate kepi was worth and Earl asking if it was the general's kepi, told him between $80,000 and $100,000. Ed exclaimed that was more than he received for the entire lot, which included a bloody sleeve, though to have been part of the uniform Pickett wore when wounded at Gaines Mill. Cutting to the chase, Earl called the Harrisburg museum to see what was paid for the items and was told over $850,000.
Juno and Pritchard, using their fame as appraisers for the Antiques Roadshow had been contacted by Ed Pickett, for an appraisal, Ed who had been running from his unwanted fame, his entire life, had no idea what the articles were worth. He was told $85,000, which was two times what he made per year and though that when they offered to purchase for that much, was a great deal.

Imagine growing up in the South as a descendant of Pickett and the teasing you received, particularly with the name George E Picket V. He made sure that in adult life he went by Ed Picket. The articles in the chest were not things he was particularly fond of other than the photographs od his ancestors, which he refuse to sell. Pritchard and Juno said that they would "restore" the photos and return them. The CDVs that were returned were laser copies that Ed had with him that weekend in Gettysburg; they went over to the Horse Soldier where Wes Small viewed them under a Magnifier and stated that they were copies.

George Edward Pickett the Fifth was now ready for a lawyer and the FBI became involved. The photos were forged (copies) and returned to Ed via mail, we now have theft and mail fraud.

These two have ripped off countless individuals, in fact Juno tried to get a SC belt rig from me at the Richmond Show in 1999 when I was a very novice collector, Dave Taylor, rescued me and pointed me to Steve Mullinax, who verified that it was a real SC rig on original leather and an appraisal. He did not offer to buy it as Juno did.

I was honored to know Don and Elaine Patterson, through the reenacting community and being their neighbor, after Don's untimely death, Juno and Pritchard approached Elaine as buyers for the Harrisburg, PA National Civil War museum. They purchased a significant portion of the Patterson collection for the "museum" claiming it would draw reenactors to the museum to see the "Patterson" collection. None of the items made it to the museum and were sold to private collectors.
The collection, appraised and purchased by the two for $57,000 was worth as much as $1.2 million; they claimed many of the articles were reproductions and therefore, could not go to the museum. One such article was a confederate overcoat they sold for $80,000.

I believe Pritchard III is still serving time for subsequent dealings and Juno can be seen at all of the memorabilia shows as if nothing happened.


Package4 has only scratched the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Pritchard and Juno. Juno cut a deal to avoid doing jail time and let us not forget Pritchard's dad.

Package4 came on the scene in 1999 and I came on the scene in 1972.
 

James N.

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I had a similar experience with another shyster, Don Ball of Florida who is or was a noted dealer in edged weapons who pretty regularly appeared at Dallas' Texas Arms Collectors shows. I seldom bought from him because I couldn't afford his prices and was generally careful to only show interest in French items which I had discovered he knew little and cared even less about. But after having bought an unmarked but documented James Conning Confederate foot officers' sword I carried it along to the next show. Ball, who was not at his table, spied it from across the room and nearly fell over himself getting to the dummy who didn't know anything before anyone else could. What a letdown for him when I told him what it was and that it wasn't for sale!
 

James N.

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... If I was lucky to have anything directly related to my CW ancestors, it would not be for sale at any price. If I had something else CW related that I wished to sell, you bet I would drive myself crazy with research and pricing. (Then after all that may not sell the item anyway.) That's just me. I have sensitivities that run much deeper than pockets lined with five pieces of silver.

This link is to a thread I posted some time back detailing some of my experiences selling part of my collection:

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/my-adventures-consigning-my-sword-collection.114828/
 

unicornforge

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As a long time collector, I have found that for the most part Civil War dealers are very reputable..... Rule of thumb is to deal with those that guarantee their pieces as authentic for life and have the reputation to back it up. CSArms, Horse Soldier, Battleground Antiques, Dave Taylor's CW Antiques, College Hill Arsenal to name a few that stand behind their pieces..............

I would have to suggest caution. One of the "reputable" dealers that you mentioned had a No.1 Wheel that had extreme repairs with replacement parts from a Amish buggy shop in Lancaster PA and lots of wood putty, and buggy bolts where tire bolts should have been, as well as reproduction artillery lanyards, when I took a friend to see their items some years ago.

I also met a counterfeiter of ironwork relics at an early American ironwork conference in Delaware some years ago, who claimed that all the relic slave collars in the Gettysburg stores were his creations, and showed me his stock of items behind his driver's seat of his truck that were ready for delivery.

I have also had a relic dealer in a Westminster Maryland antique mall offer to buy counterfeits if they looked good enough. I did not take him up on his offer.

Additionally, I talked to a leather-worker who discovered one of his creations at a relic show held in a conference facility. When he pointed out his unique stitching on the back of the belt to the dealer, the dealer still continued to offer the belt for sale as authentic.

Buyer beware!
 
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Arioch

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I've seen that show and episode before as well….plenty of blame to go around here…yes, the purported buyer was a shyster and guilty as hell….

But,….I have to place a whole heap of blame on George V…..He knew full well what his family's history was…he should have done his homework, and not tried to unload as fast as he could….He couldn't run fast enough from his family history…and that is where the real mistake / issue came from….His avoidance of the 'name', led to his haste to get rid of…as soon as he saw $….And only seeing $ is how and why he found himself in that situation….

It wasn't just 'family history'….he had a relic / piece of 'American History'….that transcends….and if he wasn't preoccupied with his own self, running from his family…he may have appreciated the bigger picture….and acted accordingly.

Funny how all it took was to stop running from his family name,..show up at an event he was invited to be a guest (of honor no less) at…..and ask the good folks there, what they thought of the items….I suspect that if he had still been in possession of the items, then….he would have been guided and put in touch with reputable entities….
 

James N.

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I've seen that show and episode before as well….plenty of blame to go around here…yes, the purported buyer was a shyster and guilty as hell….

But,….I have to place a whole heap of blame on George V…..He knew full well what his family's history was…he should have done his homework, and not tried to unload as fast as he could….He couldn't run fast enough from his family history…and that is where the real mistake / issue came from….His avoidance of the 'name', led to his haste to get rid of…as soon as he saw $….And only seeing $ is how and why he found himself in that situation….

It wasn't just 'family history'….he had a relic / piece of 'American History'….that transcends….and if he wasn't preoccupied with his own self, running from his family…he may have appreciated the bigger picture….and acted accordingly.

Funny how all it took was to stop running from his family name,..show up at an event he was invited to be a guest (of honor no less) at…..and ask the good folks there, what they thought of the items….I suspect that if he had still been in possession of the items, then….he would have been guided and put in touch with reputable entities….

Exactly; I have NO real sympathy for George Pickett V; he's guilty as much the shyster. Collectors like me would envy him his heirlooms which he thought no more of than to basically throw away for a quick profit.
 
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Mr. King

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This does happen, and it's a scam. Established museums often have it written into their ethics rules that they will not give appraisals on items, specifically to avoid accusations of conflict of interest.
How often does it happen that disputed items dissappear into the private collectors realm instead of being on display in a museum? Then the public ends up on the losing end of the stick because Warren Buffet's grandson it playing cowboys and indians in the backyard using Custer's actual hat and boots.
 

W. Richardson

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Happens all the time. You trade your car in for $1500 and the dealer re-sells it for $5000. Mr Pickett the 5th should had done his homework and connect with a place like Heritage Auctions or Sotherby's for consignment...



I agree totally !!


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Respectfully,
William
 
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I have watched this many times and seen at points of them showing the collection it isn't the real Pickett items!They are very bad reproductions purposely used cause they can't get it back from the museum!
 
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