"G" Company Lamar Rifles 11th Mississippi Photo Question

Johnny_Reb_1865

Corporal
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Company G Lamar Rifles of the 11th Mississippi in Oxford, Mississippi, 1861.jpeg


Here's a photo of Company "G" 11th Mississippi in Oxford, Mississippi in 1861.

Does anyone know if there's an exact date to this photo?

Any way to know who's who?
 

Biscoitos

Corporal
Joined
May 14, 2020
I was doing some CW research in the Ole Miss Library yesterday, but I am far from being very knowledgeable on Oxford's history.
The photo does look like it could be the "Square" in Oxford.
Quickly checking the usual sources, I find no record of a store named Ash & Wagner ever being in Oxford.
Also, the 1860 U.S. Census for Lafayette County (Oxford) Mississippi, shows no one whatsoever with the surnames Ash or Wagner.

I can't tell you much else.
Not saying it isn't saying Oxford.
 

Lampasas Bill

Sergeant
Joined
Sep 24, 2018
I don't know... Something about this photograph screams "1870s" to me. I checked the source, New York Historical Society, and although they have it stored in their Civil War photo file, the original stereo card makes no mention of an 1861 date. It also does not identify them as the 11th Mississippi, but only as the Lamar Rifles. There are several 1861 photos of members of this unit in frock coats and brimmed hats, rather than in jackets and caps; the only similarity is the frogging on the chest. Also, it doesn't look right for 1861, where beards were so popular, as only a couple of men have them. The mustache is worn by many, which would be more typical of the 1870s. I think it's a group photo of a later militia unit continuing the tradition of Lamar Rifles which served in the 11th Mississippi in 1861.
 

Biscoitos

Corporal
Joined
May 14, 2020
I don't know... Something about this photograph screams "1870s" to me. I checked the source, New York Historical Society, and although they have it stored in their Civil War photo file, the original stereo card makes no mention of an 1861 date. It also does not identify them as the 11th Mississippi, but only as the Lamar Rifles. There are several 1861 photos of members of this unit in frock coats and brimmed hats, rather than in jackets and caps; the only similarity is the frogging on the chest. Also, it doesn't look right for 1861, where beards were so popular, as only a couple of men have them. The mustache is worn by many, which would be more typical of the 1870s. I think it's a group photo of a later militia unit continuing the tradition of Lamar Rifles which served in the 11th Mississippi in 1861.
Whoa !!!!! Stereo card ?????
How many stereo photographs were taken in the Deep South in 1861?
Are there any known to have been taken anywhere near Oxford or north Mississippi??
My guess would be somewhere between almost none and absolutely none.
I think the words stereo card alone mean post war.
Opinions ???
 

Biscoitos

Corporal
Joined
May 14, 2020
I don't know... Something about this photograph screams "1870s" to me. I checked the source, New York Historical Society, and although they have it stored in their Civil War photo file, the original stereo card makes no mention of an 1861 date. It also does not identify them as the 11th Mississippi, but only as the Lamar Rifles. There are several 1861 photos of members of this unit in frock coats and brimmed hats, rather than in jackets and caps; the only similarity is the frogging on the chest. Also, it doesn't look right for 1861, where beards were so popular, as only a couple of men have them. The mustache is worn by many, which would be more typical of the 1870s. I think it's a group photo of a later militia unit continuing the tradition of Lamar Rifles which served in the 11th Mississippi in 1861.
What about the ground surface in front of the men?
It isn't dirt or gravel.
Any type of paving or concrete would be extremely rare in 1861 Mississippi.
And could those those two parallel lines (parallel to each other and to the line of men) be tracks or grooves for a horse drawn trolley?
If so, wouldn't that mean post war Oxford?

While I see no reason to doubt that it is Oxford, I also see no photographic evidence that it is.
Someone pointed out that the building on the corner with the sign is no longer standing (replaced by the building now occupied by Square Books), so how can can that be evidence?
The fact that there is a row of buildings in the background and the appearance of a public square behind the men in the photo could be anyone of hundreds of Southern towns.

Again, I am only saying that I see no photographic proof that it is Oxford.

Incidentally, every summer when I was a kid my parents drove me and other kids to a summer camp near Oxford.
On the way home we never failed to stop on the Square and buy fresh vegetables and especially watermelons from the back of the same local farmer's pickup. I can still see his weathered, tan, smiling face and his pale green Chevy pickup.

If this photograph is Oxford, his pickup was always parked a few feet behind about where the last 4 or 5 men on the right are standing.
 

Tom Hughes

First Sergeant
Joined
May 27, 2019
Location
Mississippi
Most of these men in the photograph look "older". I agree that this is probably a post war militia until from the Lamar Rifles. Probably some of these men even fought in the civil war in that very unit, but this looks post war.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Location
Southwest Mississippi
I think the mystery is now solved !

So many of us jumped to conclusions only because of one old image that looked almost identical to a local unit with unique uniforms
(on a town square that actually could be anywhere).

@RochesterBill wins the medal !

And while I was way off base myself, I do enjoy these threads.

It reminds me of an photographic discussion over a kepi device about seven years ago.
There were many pages of debate if said device was Union or Confederate.

This emblem was eventually proven to be from
the Venezuelan military . . . around 1895.

:bounce:
 
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RochesterBill

Corporal
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
I believe that I have uncovered the reason for the confusion: there were two Confederate units called the Lamar Rifles.

One was.indeed the 11th Mississippi, as noted. The photo in question was identified as being the Lamar Rifles, and people concluded - not illogically- that it was the Miss. company.

But there was also a unit raised in Lamar County Texas called the Lamar Rifles, also referred to as Maxeys Rifles, ( and formally the 9th Texas) after their first commander, Samuel Bell Maxey who was a West Point grad (he was Stonewall Jackson's roommate).and was brevetted in Mexico.

The unit was badly mauled at Shiloh but Maxey had been sent to build bridges someplace and missed the battle.

Anyway, there's the deal: two units with the same name.
 
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Ole Miss

Captain
Forum Host
Silver Patron
Regtl. Staff Shiloh 2020
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Location
North Mississippi
Having lived in Oxford for 60+ years and I do not know for sure but would guess the camera is on the West side of the Lafayette County Courthouse facing North. First National Bank is now located were the Ash & Wagner store used to be.

I am no expert but I do know one who probably could identify the unit, date and location. Starke Miller a friend of mine and @Woods-walker, is Oxford historian and expert on Company A, the University Greys, of the 11th​ Mississippi. I am fairly confident he knows a great bit about the Lamar Rifles. I have his facebook page info below. If you are interested in a guided tour of Shiloh? He is extremely knowledgeable about the battle and the roles played by Ole Miss matriculants.

@Biscoitos were you successful with your research at the Ole Miss Library? I have many enjoyable hours in that building going back to index cards of the Dewey Decimal System!
Regards
David

https://www.facebook.com/starke.mil...zOTM4NTkzNzE2MjU0Mzc5XzM5Mzg4MzY5Njk1NjMzODc=
 

RochesterBill

Corporal
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
Having lived in Oxford for 60+ years and I do not know for sure but would guess the camera is on the West side of the Lafayette County Courthouse facing North. First National Bank is now located were the Ash & Wagner store used to be.

I am no expert but I do know one who probably could identify the unit, date and location. Starke Miller a friend of mine and @Woods-walker, is Oxford historian and expert on Company A, the University Greys, of the 11th​ Mississippi. I am fairly confident he knows a great bit about the Lamar Rifles. I have his facebook page info below. If you are interested in a guided tour of Shiloh? He is extremely knowledgeable about the battle and the roles played by Ole Miss matriculants.

@Biscoitos were you successful with your research at the Ole Miss Library? I have many enjoyable hours in that building going back to index cards of the Dewey Decimal System!
Regards
David

https://www.facebook.com/starke.miller?comment_id=Y29tbWVudDozOTM4NTkzNzE2MjU0Mzc5XzM5Mzg4MzY5Njk1NjMzODc=

Perhaps you missed the photo identification above which proves it was not taken in Oxford Mississippi but in Dallas Texas.

Therefore wherever a camera is located in Oxford it will need one heck of a lens to show the spot where Ash & Wagner used to stand, which is approximately 535 miles away at the corner of Main and Jefferson Streets in Dallas.
 
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