Further proof that South Carolina Whites Thought of Themselves as Anglo Saxon Not Celtic

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Well ancestry speaking my folks got off the ship in the Virginia and the Carolinas in the period between 1690 to 1725 period on the paternal side, and in the 1720's on the maternal side, with the vast majority of my family here in the South before 1750, and most earlier, and my family is almost solely English in origin, and they were not blue-blooded elites, none rising to prominence until the American Revolution era and even then only a short time before again fading back into the background. (On a side note there is Scottish, and apparently some French in my blood, but its small compared to the amount of English, and seems to have all originated after 1800, definitely so with the French, along with some Cherokee after 1865).

One can't say it was only "Celtic" origin folks coming here, with the only English "blue-bloods" being here there's no evidence that isn't here say or conjectural and plenty of evidence to the contrary.
 

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63rdOVI

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Interesting.

My first immigrants arrived in Jamestown around 1610-1615, and the last ones came to New York City in 1827. By the time I was born, however (during the Civil War centennial), all recognition of who we "were" and where we came from was lost...except my mother's family, whose paternal surname was unmistakeably "Arsh" (Irish, in the Appalachian dialect): Lynch, even though they arrived here in 1770. According to the four DNA companies with which I've tested, I'm 98% European and 2% West African. (Although they can't accurately predict national origins, my paper trail genealogy proves me at mostly Northwestern European.)

Since I can't claim any knowledge of what my Civil War soldiers may have considered themselves, I feel that they may have just considered themselves plain old Americans.
 
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Hoping this isn't too far afield, but I was exploring a Superstition Mine on youtube named the WASP mine, that had been owned by a group of Mormons and one White Anglo Saxon Protestant that this mine was supposedly named as WASP. Out of curiosity, with the religious context, happened to wonder if anyone else has any verification of the title or it's origin?
Lubliner.
 
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As far as I go most of my ancestry comes from eastern Virginia in the 1600s. Most of those folks were English. After land Grant's given out into nc many moved into nc and filtered out. Have some Irish and Scottish as well. To point out a large batch of Scots and scot/Irish came into Wilmington and settled the Cape fear region in the 1700s. So from Wilmington up into Cumberland, Scotland, harnett counties, etc. I think many regiments from these areas would take exception to the Anglo saxon statements after the war.
 
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As a 7th-generation Southerner with Welsh and Irish roots (DNA confirmed), ancestors who arrived prior to the Revolution, I was researching, and read that in the 1600-1700's the exchequer of each port city determined which country of origin to admit, through a strict though subjective vetting process, and New England historically preferred English well into the 19th Century. Also, I learned that there was a great out-migration of Scot-Irish from the North into the Southern Wilderness, because of disparate treatment by English-born citizens in the North. I have relatives of one line, who still live in New York and who arrived on the North American Continent before the Revolution, when dumped off an English ship onto Nova Scotia, likely for their religious beliefs. Today, no doubt those of my New England relatives unwittingly claim to be blue blood British.

As for the vetting, for example, it was not until the 1760-1770's that people from the British Isles of Scotland and Ireland, and Wales, were allowed into the Port of Charles Town, South Carolina. Before that era, they arrived in droves into the South through out-migration from the North. That leniency in South Carolina only happened when it did, because the Exchequer was himself from Wales.

Those Welshmen arriving in Charles Town were pushed out of the city to live along the Pee Dee River among other societal misfits: the Quakers, French Huguenots, Creole, Melungeon, mixed-breed Native Americans, and free blacks. Later generations were pushed further away from the coast, by economic, political, religious, societal pressures, including torching their farms and "running them into the wilderness like dogs"... their words, not mine. Today, travel to that area in northeast South Carolina just off the Atlantic coast, and you'll find their remnants in historical museums, cemeteries, and town names.

I learned that this strict vetting of immigrants continued after the Revolution too, but not that the degree it had previously. A Civil War was coming, even a fool knew this fact, and soldiers were needed.

To understand this vetting dynamic and social conflict, go back in time to Europe. There was a great power shuffle among the classes in the melting pot of the world's immigrants because, before arriving on our shores those same groups were looked down upon in Europe (Irish, Scots, Welsh... who during the Reformation had been forced out of England, and some dumped off ships in Canada) were demeaned here in America too, relegated to menial positions, were servants of the "blue blood" British, worked in mills, mines.

Of course, the Southern elite claimed the be blue blood British, whether true or not, and could because they did not have DNA testing. They had money which bought power, and they also relegated the poorer classes, first into the wilderness and then into mills and mines, where most never had a chance to better themselves, until their descendants did after WWII.
Furthermore, it was during the Reformation in Europe, over many centuries, as Protestant and Catholic royalty swapped thrones, those people who were deemed loyal to the "enemy religion" were labeled dissidents, and forced onto the Isle of Ireland onto "plantations". Thus the name given to provincial farms was taken from that Irish heritage into Southern U.S.A.

Addendum II to my initial post:
I did not mean to imply that I do not have "noble" and royal British roots, because I do have. They were among those expelled from England into Ireland, and Nova Scotia, and pushed out of Maryland, up the Pee Dee River of South Carolina, and some fled into the Wilderness. I identify and sympathize more with those of my Irish and Welsh family lines, due to their equally tragic lives after escaping persecution in Europe and coming to America.
 

CSA Today

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North Carolina Cape Fear Highland Scots
“Although their exact numbers are unknown, records reveal that countless Highland Scots migrated to North Carolina during the colonial period. Arriving in Wilmington, most who came had obtained a land grant from the government to settle in the Upper Cape Fear region, because they knew many parts of the Lower Cape Fear had been settled. In 1754, enterprising merchants from Wilmington had settled Cross Creek, an interior town on the Cape Fear River, so many Highlanders dwelled near the small creeks flowing into the river. Highland settlements were numerous in this region during the eighteenth century, and evidence of them can be seen today in Anson, Bladen, Moore, Cumberland, Richland, Scotland, and Robeson counties."

Note “Richland” should be Richmond and present-day Hoke County and probably some of the region's counties should have been included.

https://northcarolinahistory.org/encyclopedia/highland-scots/
 

Waterloo50

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Interesting that those in the North and South feel any need at all to identify with either Saxon or Celt, it seems to me that it was a far bigger issue in the USA than it ever has been here in Britain. Just exactly what were people trying to identify with, as Pat has rightly commented ‘I don't think that these leading military men thought of themselves as "Celtic" or that some nebulous Celtic values informed their actions.’
I’d be interested to know exactly what it was that people were trying to identify with. I can understand that people of British ancestry might focus on religion but even that would have nothing to do with being Saxon or Celtic. I can also understand that people have a need to identify with their ancestors and It makes perfect sense that people would want to hang on to some of the old traditions but claiming to be either Celtic or Saxon is a bit of a stretch. To me, the argument about Celt or Saxon is nothing more than a futile attempt by people to lay claim at being the whitest of the white.
 
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Interesting that those in the North and South feel any need at all to identify with either Saxon or Celt, it seems to me that it was a far bigger issue in the USA than it ever has been here in Britain. Just exactly what were people trying to identify with, as Pat has rightly commented ‘I don't think that these leading military men thought of themselves as "Celtic" or that some nebulous Celtic values informed their actions.’
I’d be interested to know exactly what it was that people were trying to identify with. I can understand that people of British ancestry might focus on religion but even that would have nothing to do with being Saxon or Celtic. I can also understand that people have a need to identify with their ancestors and It makes perfect sense that people would want to hang on to some of the old traditions but claiming to be either Celtic or Saxon is a bit of a stretch. To me, the argument about Celt or Saxon is nothing more than a futile attempt by people to lay claim at being the whitest of the white.
Good answer @Waterloo50, concerning the status quo. But the argument for identifying some special relationship reflects against an American belief that man can prosper for what he is and rise above his birthright status. The common man may achieve greatness in his lifetime. So why does the common man attach such importance to the burden of his past ancestry. Our own presence is in a world of trouble because of it already.
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Waterloo50

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Good answer @Waterloo50, concerning the status quo. But the argument for identifying some special relationship reflects against an American belief that man can prosper for what he is and rise above his birthright status. The common man may achieve greatness in his lifetime. So why does the common man attach such importance to the burden of his past ancestry. Our own presence is in a world of trouble because of it already.
Lubliner.
Thanks Lubliner,
The exact opposite is true here in Britain, we can aspire to rise above our social status but we have an entrenched class system which limits our ability to climb the social ladder. We have plenty of working class people that have become successful entrepreneurs but despite their wealth they will be judged by the higher echelons of society as common or lacking because of their impoverished background. British society places very little importance on a persons ethnic origin, what really matters here in Britain is social status and titles, which is why I was surprised that people in the USA wanted to identify with either Saxon or Celt, there’s nothing to be gained by claiming to be descended from either.
If for example, a southern gentleman could prove that he was related to a Duke or a Lord then to my British way of thinking that would make sense, it’s worth remembering that British people have for centuries been conditioned into believing that those with titles or royal connections are our betters.
King George once said to John Adams, ‘I pray Mr Adams that the United States does not suffer unduly from its want of a Monarchy’... You guys had a narrow escape.
 

Pat Young

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I’d be interested to know exactly what it was that people were trying to identify with... To me, the argument about Celt or Saxon is nothing more than a futile attempt by people to lay claim at being the whitest of the white.
I think that they were trying to establish a clear sense of racial supremacy.
 
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Thanks Lubliner,
The exact opposite is true here in Britain, we can aspire to rise above our social status but we have an entrenched class system which limits our ability to climb the social ladder. We have plenty of working class people that have become successful entrepreneurs but despite their wealth they will be judged by the higher echelons of society as common or lacking because of their impoverished background. British society places very little importance on a persons ethnic origin, what really matters here in Britain is social status and titles, which is why I was surprised that people in the USA wanted to identify with either Saxon or Celt, there’s nothing to be gained by claiming to be descended from either.
If for example, a southern gentleman could prove that he was related to a Duke or a Lord then to my British way of thinking that would make sense, it’s worth remembering that British people have for centuries been conditioned into believing that those with titles or royal connections are our betters.
King George once said to John Adams, ‘I pray Mr Adams that the United States does not suffer unduly from its want of a Monarchy’... You guys had a narrow escape.
I do know that somewhere among the papers of the founding fathers of this country one will come across a legality of 'royal distinction'; that none shall be claimed here as citizens but visitors are granted their honorary title. Sort of like the saying, "From the dust you were made, and to the dust you shall return."
Lubliner.
 
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I think that they were trying to establish a clear sense of racial supremacy.
I get that same feeling too, @Pat Young. I could liken it to a seniority plan, where I have more privilege for residing longer in the U. S. A., proving I was a benefit somehow. Or maybe it could be likened to having more money than some other, and therefore more right to do as I desire....So claiming the distinction to me sounds like a promotional gamble to offset and blind me to what I see in front of me. I find it interesting to meet people with names, such as Bragg, and Couch, and Lee, etc. and they never needed to blow the horn. So do you think the argument could be one voiced for the sake of Posterity, maybe?
Lubliner.
 

BlueandGrayl

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South Carolina's Settler Stock (the term I'm basically using to refer to the Thirteen Colonies Americans) was made up of English, Ulster-Scots, Scottish, French Huguenot, German, and Irish persons. Southerners tended to be of English, Ulster-Scots, and Scottish descent but they also had Irish, French, German, Italian, Greek persons as well as smaller amounts of Czechs, Polish, and other European groups sometimes found in states such as Texas though not quite as much as the Northern states.
 

Pat Young

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South Carolina's Settler Stock (the term I'm basically using to refer to the Thirteen Colonies Americans) was made up of English, Ulster-Scots, Scottish, French Huguenot, German, and Irish persons. Southerners tended to be of English, Ulster-Scots, and Scottish descent but they also had Irish, French, German, Italian, Greek persons as well as smaller amounts of Czechs, Polish, and other European groups sometimes found in states such as Texas though not quite as much as the Northern states.
OK, then why the references to Anglo Saxon?
 



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