Chamberlain FundRazer campaign for a Chamberlain highway marker at Petersburg.

suzenatale

Sergeant Major
Joined
May 25, 2013
71% funded.
Apparently you misunderstand. Another roadside marker isn't unbearable to me. I just don't see the need.
When I was there about 10 years ago the park ranger sent me to a spot that was definitely not that spot. So I guess even park rangers could use a reminder.
 

Frederick14Va

Sergeant Major
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Location
Virginia
On a side note... one must also take into consideration the location... this isn't some rural country byway beside a corn field that once was part of a battlefield... with open spaces and viable option for commemoration markers and preservation.... its located in the heart of an urban metro city....

What was the city locate in 1864-65 was much much smaller than it is now... Much of the fray occurred in the surrounding country side that was mostly rural farm land...... Cities rebuilt and prospered as well as greatly expanded.... The main property mass of what is now Petersburg NPS evaded the urban sprawling of the early 1900's... not because of historical preservationist.... but because it was purchased and became a golf course... so the sprawl developed around it... Later the NPS obtained the property.. but what was beyond that had already been engulfed in development..... What had been the ground that the V Corp fought across was unfortunately outside of that tee-off border.... Commercial and residential development had already consumed it..... very little if anything remaining that would give any clue of what previously had occurred there.... A few monuments had been erected in the area before the wave of city development enveloped them... The Pennsylvania Monument sits in the middle of a split on a side road.... another statue laden granite marker on Crater Rd.... sits on a small patch of grass in the corner of a strip mall parking lot.... urban sprawl.... then urban decay....

It would be difficult for anyone to accurately determine exactly what may have happened where in that area. Very little evidence remaining of its prior history to gauge anything on other than reasonable guesses at best.... The topography has greatly changed since 1864.... cant fault the ranger for pointing out a generalized area...

I understand the desire and passion to remember and commemorate...regardless who it might be... but in this particular case knowing the area pretty good..... I would have to question if the issue hadn't been completely evaluated and thought out... if this marker itself would actually be the best way and means to relay the sentiment and commemoration.... buried back hidden out of the way in a neighborhood.... or even if shifted up on the nearby main road.... placed by the road between the adult book store and the local payday loan shark office... Think I would have tried to consider other possible options... taken into consideration the immediate environment this is aimed at...
 

suzenatale

Sergeant Major
Joined
May 25, 2013
On a side note... one must also take into consideration the location... this isn't some rural country byway beside a corn field that once was part of a battlefield... with open spaces and viable option for commemoration markers and preservation.... its located in the heart of an urban metro city....

What was the city locate in 1864-65 was much much smaller than it is now... Much of the fray occurred in the surrounding country side that was mostly rural farm land...... Cities rebuilt and prospered as well as greatly expanded.... The main property mass of what is now Petersburg NPS evaded the urban sprawling of the early 1900's... not because of historical preservationist.... but because it was purchased and became a golf course... so the sprawl developed around it... Later the NPS obtained the property.. but what was beyond that had already been engulfed in development..... What had been the ground that the V Corp fought across was unfortunately outside of that tee-off border.... Commercial and residential development had already consumed it..... very little if anything remaining that would give any clue of what previously had occurred there.... A few monuments had been erected in the area before the wave of city development enveloped them... The Pennsylvania Monument sits in the middle of a split on a side road.... another statue laden granite marker on Crater Rd.... sits on a small patch of grass in the corner of a strip mall parking lot.... urban sprawl.... then urban decay....

It would be difficult for anyone to accurately determine exactly what may have happened where in that area. Very little evidence remaining of its prior history to gauge anything on other than reasonable guesses at best.... The topography has greatly changed since 1864.... cant fault the ranger for pointing out a generalized area...

I understand the desire and passion to remember and commemorate...regardless who it might be... but in this particular case knowing the area pretty good..... I would have to question if the issue hadn't been completely evaluated and thought out... if this marker itself would actually be the best way and means to relay the sentiment and commemoration.... buried back hidden out of the way in a neighborhood.... or even if shifted up on the nearby main road.... placed by the road between the adult book store and the local payday loan shark office... Think I would have tried to consider other possible options... taken into consideration the immediate environment this is aimed at...
It would be cool if the CWT could buy the house where Fort Sedgwick used to be, I presume a house is there now. They could recreate the fort and it could be a nice green space for those living in the neighborhood. Then all markers could be placed there directing people where to look to see this and that.
 

Frederick14Va

Sergeant Major
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Location
Virginia
Sedgwick once existed somewhere relative to the center of this image..... no real evidence remains... This is why I stated it can be quite difficult to determine exact locations of various features that once existed there.....
Petersburg-Sedgewick.jpg
 

suzenatale

Sergeant Major
Joined
May 25, 2013
Sedgwick once existed somewhere relative to the center of this image..... no real evidence remains... This is why I stated it can be quite difficult to determine exact locations of various features that once existed there.....
View attachment 41348
Humm, well I'm not sure how they determined the location. Supposedly by a stream? I think these railroad tracks might be in the same location. Could Sedgwick be in that clump of trees at the bottom of your image. It would take a lot of studying maps. I imagine someone knows more about it than I do.

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http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/reamsstation/maps/investment-of-petersburg-by.html
 

Frederick14Va

Sergeant Major
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Location
Virginia
The clump of trees near the bottom of the prior image is where Blackwater Creek winds through, which is a marshy-swampy area now.. This feature was reportedly in the rear area back behind Sedgwick, as shown on some maps. These show the general area where it was once suppose to be.

Also some maps show Sedgwick in advance of the existing old railroad line.... Once they cut in the new US Military Rail line to the Petersburg lines from City Point... some show it situated just behind that one. Id have to do some old file digging to find out which rail line the still existing railroad bed followed that appears on the modern map... So it should be just above or just below the rail bed seen in the map here....

Ironically I have a meeting at Petersburg NPS on Saturday so can check what they have there... If that doesn't clear it, I also have another unrelated meeting with Chris Calkins on Monday... He previously had been the chief historian for Petersburg NPS for over 30 years and authored a number of books on the campaign... and knows every inch of it... if anyone knows exactly.. he would.
Petersburg-Sedgewick2.jpg
 

suzenatale

Sergeant Major
Joined
May 25, 2013
The clump of trees near the bottom of the prior image is where Blackwater Creek winds through, which is a marshy-swampy area now.. This feature was reportedly in the rear area back behind Sedgwick, as shown on some maps. These show the general area where it was once suppose to be.

Also some maps show Sedgwick in advance of the existing old railroad line.... Once they cut in the new US Military Rail line to the Petersburg lines from City Point... some show it situated just behind that one. Id have to do some old file digging to find out which rail line the still existing railroad bed followed that appears on the modern map... So it should be just above or just below the rail bed seen in the map here....

Ironically I have a meeting at Petersburg NPS on Saturday so can check what they have there... If that doesn't clear it, I also have another unrelated meeting with Chris Calkins on Monday... He previously had been the chief historian for Petersburg NPS for over 30 years and authored a number of books on the campaign... and knows every inch of it... if anyone knows exactly.. he would.
View attachment 41366
Cool! Thanks!
 

suzenatale

Sergeant Major
Joined
May 25, 2013
Here's an update from Dean,
"Hi Susan.. As I understand from Chip Mann from the VA Dept of Historic Resources, the marker is to be placed near E. south Blvd and fort Mahone Street.. This is further west of Warren and Van Dorn street which is more likely where he was shot, but is in an area of higher public visibility.
I learned that Warren street was the location of JLC's gunshot wound from Patrick Schroeder of the NPS at Appomattox. Recently I heard from Tom Dejardin,( JLC author and Gettysburg historian) that JLC was wounded at the end of Van Dorn street.. Both streets are very close and I believe this area to be where JLC went down but neither have particularly high visibility..
I'm not sure about creating a park..also, the text of the marker has been approved and cannot be changed now. The Marker does however say, in this vicinity" to explain the location."

That will place it closer to the NPS tour route and the PA monument. It sounds like the exact place that it occurred is up for debate.

Here is Chamberlain's description of the place,
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pg 175 http://www.joshualawrencechamberlain.com/petersburgandappomattox.php

The Plank Road is Crater Road as I understand it. Chamberlain mentions "a little run in front" I'm not sure if there is evidence of where this was today. He also mentions being 400 years from Fort Mahone.
 

Frederick14Va

Sergeant Major
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Location
Virginia
New mentioned location is about 2-3 blocks worth west of the previous... not really much of an improved location.... at the intersection is a Seven-Eleven, and retail discount store... and the Petersburg School Board building... which appears to be an old retail store... As mentioned the area topography has greatly been altered since 1864... even amongst various regional noted historians there is differing opinions of what was exactly where.....

Intersection of E.South Blvd and Ft. Mahone St as mentioned above....
PBG-SouthSt-Mahone.jpg


PBG-SouthSt-Mahone2.jpg
 

suzenatale

Sergeant Major
Joined
May 25, 2013
This was posted on another site and I found it somewhat fitting to the conversation as Brian Pohanka had done extensive research on Chamberlain, and well, the shot in the *** part seemed fitting too :D

"Back in 1986 when Brian Pohanka, Ed Wenzel and myself formed the Chantilly Battlefield Association for the purpose of encouraging Fairfax County (VA) officials to preserve the Chantilly (Ox Hill) Battlefield, the three of us made several appearances before the intransigent Board of Supervisors–a bureaucratic entity that conveyed zero interest in saving Fairfax’s largest Civil War battlefield.

As you know, both Phil Kearny and Isaac Stevens were killed in that savage battle, a point that we made with some frequency in our public presentations. Finally exasperated upon repeatedly hearing that Kearny and Stevens were killed at Ox Hill, Jack Herrity, Chairman, Fairfax County Board of Supervisors whispered the phrase to a Board colleague via an open microphone, “Who gives a **** about saving a place where some Yankee generals got shot in the ***?”

Well, I had previously seen Brian Pohanka angry at other slights directed toward us by the BoS, but I had never before seen him so instantaneously furious that he was ready to approach the Board and slug it out with the loathsome Jack Herrity. It took all we could do to calm Brian down and ease him out of the Board Room.

So, today we have a very small battlefield park at Chantilly and the Kearny/Stevens Memorial Markers are certainly worth a respectful visit by your readers. But please remember that whatever we saved (4.8 acres out of a 300 acre battlefield) is sacred ground that is today preserved over the sectional objections of an arrogantly offensive elected official. (Jack Herrity died in 2006, and I have yet to pay my respects to his memory.)

But every single day we do continue to mourn the death of our dear friend and fellow preservationist, Brian Pohanka."
http://cwcrossroads.wordpress.com/2014/07/10/a-stroll-through-arlington-part-one/#comment-37465
 

Frederick14Va

Sergeant Major
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Location
Virginia
Back in those days Fairfax had a huge reputation of not playing well with others.... I worked for the state back then in a public safety field... They were in their own little world and universe and nothing else much mattered in any form... We used to call it "The Independent Grand Domain of Lord Fairfax".... It wasn't really part of Virginia in reality... nothing but a suburb of DC and the minions that work there... so could care less of local or state history...

I knew Brian from the historical and reenactment community and his famed 5th NY Zouaves unit.... and also had worked with him on a couple historical related film productions... Had a great deal of respect of him... and he knew his stuff as well... and wasn't abrasive or egotistical about it either... easy going and soft spoken... could imagine the thickness of the air in that board room that day...lol... and he was a resident of that area at the time too if memory serves correctly....
 

suzenatale

Sergeant Major
Joined
May 25, 2013
I've been so busy that I neglected to celebrate the completion of the campaign. Yea! we reached our goal. Great work everyone! Thanks to all who contributed! :dance:
 

noman

First Sergeant
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Location
USA
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