Discussion Frederick Douglass id's he cause of death of Robert E Lee in 1870

JerseyBart

Brigadier General
Moderator
Forum Host
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Location
New Jersey
I believe Lee was emotionally a broken man for two reasons. First was he made aware belatedly that his decision to engage in a southern slaveholder insurrection was a mistake. Secondly he was made more upset over those who were engaging in the subsequent post War insurrection violence and lynching of fellow southerners. Lee lawfully returned to his obligation to the Republic and stood as a noble example of how others should be behaving but he was ignore by most. I have high regards for Fredrick Douglass but here he only tooting his horn while missing the big picture while being partially correct. Stress hastens Death.
I am not aware of Lee ever critizising any paramilitary terrorist groups or advocating racial equality. Are there any examples of Lee doing so post ACW.
Post ACW NBF did give a speech about the need for racial equality although he died soon afterwards if I recall correctly.
Former Confederate General Longstreet did briefly lead African American milita in Louisiana against the Red Shirts so not all former Confederates were against racial equality .
Leftyhunter
No disrespect intended to you Louisiana Jayhawker, but I'd say that Frederick Douglass had every right to toot his own horn considering he was born into slavery, escaped and became a leader in the abolition and suffrage movements. And that if former slaves had a negative picture of the leaders of the rebellion that wanted to keep them enslaved forever, that is big picture.
 
Joined
Aug 4, 2019
leftyhunter
I said neither: Lee was not known to me to have openly criticized southern reactionary terrorist groups and Lee did not advocate racial equality openly. I said Lee by his conduct was trying to pose an example to other southerners how to return to being a restored good citizen to the Republic. He was very disturbed when they ignored him mostly. You threaten to disrupt this thread by even mention of NBF the Great Cult God. However you seek my reply and I respect most of your posts. NBF had a special relationship with the Negro race with a love/hate mix that is emotionally unstable and dangerous. To NBF the Negro race is the goose that laid his golden eggs and he want them back in their slave status to make him money. NBF had mixed race children from this special relationship. This is not unusual for southern slaveholders and slave traders in the South. NBF in late life grew disturbed over all the killings that he had involvement if I might say gently and he became a so called Christ Man as far as religion. Thusly he gave a confession belatedly of his greatest mistake to his fellow believers and his mixed race family. Lee would never had done this much open confession just a presentation of behavior/conduct. Lee had a strong family history hanging around his neck and his role in the deaths of thousands. He had to live with himself therefore he could only go so far. NBF did not had all that as he was as true white trash as most southerners of his type.
 

19thGeorgia

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
According to Douglass's editorial, it was Jefferson Davis who said Lee "died of a broken heart." Douglass's sarcastic comment was that, if Davis was to be believed, "the liberation of four millions of slaves and their elevation to manhood, and to the enjoyment of their civil and political rights, was more than [Lee] could stand, and so he died!"
Lee:
“So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and suffered all I have suffered, to have this objective obtained.”
 

JerseyBart

Brigadier General
Moderator
Forum Host
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Location
New Jersey
Lee:
“So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and suffered all I have suffered, to have this objective obtained.”
Again, no disrespect intended in my replies, but maybe after the fact saying in this very admittedly EXTREMELY POOR PARAPHRASING BY ME and correct my paraphrasing if I am very far off.....sorry for slavery and I am glad we lost to end it.....wasn't quite good enough for someone who lived through it and fought against it. And when people all throughout the technically reunited country were lauding General Lee with praise, Frederick Douglass wanted a dose of reality and the other side of the issue in the coverage.
 

leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
leftyhunter
I said neither: Lee was not known to me to have openly criticized southern reactionary terrorist groups and Lee did not advocate racial equality openly. I said Lee by his conduct was trying to pose an example to other southerners how to return to being a restored good citizen to the Republic. He was very disturbed when they ignored him mostly. You threaten to disrupt this thread by even mention of NBF the Great Cult God. However you seek my reply and I respect most of your posts. NBF had a special relationship with the Negro race with a love/hate mix that is emotionally unstable and dangerous. To NBF the Negro race is the goose that laid his golden eggs and he want them back in their slave status to make him money. NBF had mixed race children from this special relationship. This is not unusual for southern slaveholders and slave traders in the South. NBF in late life grew disturbed over all the killings that he had involvement if I might say gently and he became a so called Christ Man as far as religion. Thusly he gave a confession belatedly of his greatest mistake to his fellow believers and his mixed race family. Lee would never had done this much open confession just a presentation of behavior/conduct. Lee had a strong family history hanging around his neck and his role in the deaths of thousands. He had to live with himself therefore he could only go so far. NBF did not had all that as he was as true white trash as most southerners of his type.
True some may consider NBF to be a cult God I would hope that would not be true for CWT members.
I would argue in no way was NBF white trash since I don't even believe in that concept. There are good poor people vs bad rich people. I agree NBF certainly didn't have any advantages in his youth but neither did Lincoln.
NBF was highly intelligent although not well educated but that's not his fault as unfortunately education was not well funded especially in Nineteenth Century Mississippi.
Lee from what I gather did not come from a wealthy background but was well educated and highly intelligent.
Both men owned slaves although Lee is not known to have mixed race children.
Both men had their slaves whipped.
Both men claimed to be Christians but only one of them reached out to African Americans although late in life.
Both men absolutely fought for slavery but NBF knew the future had to be different in regard to racial equality vs Lee.
Both men were realists who knew that there would never be a Confederate slave republic and Southern whites would just have to live with that.
I would argue that NBF was the better man .
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
Lee:
“So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and suffered all I have suffered, to have this objective obtained.”
That's like a convicted robber saying to a parole board;" far from engaging in robbing banks I am glad that that I am incarcerated and I will work in robbery prevention as soon as I am paroled".
Leftyhunter
 
Top