Flag & canteen from estate sale


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#8
I agree with @zburkett on the flag. As for the canteen it appears to be a Civil War canteen that was altered to be used during the Indian War/Spanish American War. The canteen would have originally had three metal straps that the sling would have passed through as opposed to the 2 triangle hooks. What are the measurements on the shoulder straps. Can you post pictures of the underside of them?
 
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#10
Gents, Not sure about these as the estate had quite a bit of Civil War and Indian war era gear jumbled together. Any inputs would be much appreciated.
Semper Fi,
Bob

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IMHO, the flag is a fantasy piece and I hope the original collector did not pay too dearly for it, the canteen appears to be a Rock Island made canteen from 1898 (260,000 produced), the major's straps appear to be legit, but the cav straps are questionable.
 

James N.

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#11
Does the canteen place to the Civil War? I bought a couple compelte U.S. canteens with unit markings which I believe are Indian war period.
IMHO, the flag is a fantasy piece and I hope the original collector did not pay too dearly for it, the canteen appears to be a Rock Island made canteen from 1898 (260,000 produced), the major's straps appear to be legit, but the cav straps are questionable.
Notice that the late-war smooth-side canteen has had the bottom loop removed; this was done postwar to probably thousands of these that remained on hand unissued as surplus items. They then received dark khaki canvas covers and new leather straps with hooks on either end that engaged new triangular "loops" attached to the remaining two original loops. Then in their new configuration they were issued in the 1890's, particularly for the Spanish-American War. That however doesn't make them any the less genuine Civil War-manufactured items; I took one of these and "retrofitted" it for reenacting purposes in the 1970's by removing the triangles, re-soldering a repro loop at bottom, and covering it with a repro wool cover and white cotton canvas strap!
 
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#12
I agree with @James N. about the canteen. I've seen several such as this one in a local museum collection, complete with strap and cover, as well as a couple missing those decayable bits. They look EXACTLY like the one you have.

As for the flag, I concur with @Package4... though I wouldn't consider it a 'fantasy piece' per say. I think it is probably a UCV or other reunion piece, judging by its condition alone. The fabric looks to be quite old, and the fading of the canton is in keeping with the earlier commercial dyes of the late 1800's. The blues and greens just didn't keep their color well.

Love the cartridge box, as well as the original rounds. From what I can make out, it looks to be in pretty good shape. If you could share a few more pics of it from other angles, I'd really appreciate it.

Great find!
 
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#14
I agree with @James N although I thought the M1858 smooth side canteen was used early war. I cant remember for sure but, I think, the "bullseye" canteen was the more common during the later years? IIRC correctly the concentric ringed canteens were supposed to prevent dents in the canteen but they went back to the smoothside canteen post war. The canteen also does not appear to have any markings on the spout. I seem to remember reading somewhere that most early war canteens lacked markings?

I cannot comment much on the flag, it does appear to have age, but forgers have become very adept at making things look aged. Here is a perfect example:

https://www.warhats.com/american-civil-war-hats-caps-kepis.html#/
 
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#16
Notice that the late-war smooth-side canteen has had the bottom loop removed; this was done postwar to probably thousands of these that remained on hand unissued as surplus items. They then received dark khaki canvas covers and new leather straps with hooks on either end that engaged new triangular "loops" attached to the remaining two original loops. Then in their new configuration they were issued in the 1890's, particularly for the Spanish-American War. That however doesn't make them any the less genuine Civil War-manufactured items; I took one of these and "retrofitted" it for reenacting purposes in the 1970's by removing the triangles, re-soldering a repro loop at bottom, and covering it with a repro wool cover and white cotton canvas strap!
The tell tale on the canteen are the straps that are soldered to the side seams for the triangles, this is an attribute of the Rock Island late 19th century canteens, the solder at the bottom is too smooth for the removal of a loop. The Rock Island also had a concave side as this one does. Most of the retrofit canteens from the ACW were the corregated type. Just my opinion.
 
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ucvrelics

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#17
I agree on the assessment of the canteen. I would need to see the back of the shoulder boards to be able to date those and the flag is fake.
 
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#20
The tell tale on the canteen are the straps that are soldered to the side seems for the triangles, this is an attribute of the Rock Island late 19th century canteens, the solder at the bottom is too smooth for the removal of a loop. The Rock Island also had a concave side as this one does. Most of the retrofit canteens from the ACW were the corregated type. Just my opinion.
I see what you mean about the concave side, I originally viewed that as a dent but upon closer examination it does look like it was manufactured with that feature.
 

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