Feuding Generals

Eagle65

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Dec 21, 2018
What feud between generals -on their own side - had the most impact on the war? I often wonder how they had time to fight the war, what with all the infighting and jockeying for position that went on. Much more seriously, how did the feuding effect the rank and file? How did it impact the outcome of battles?
 
Gen. John Sappington Marmaduke killed Gen. Lucius M. Walker in a duel in Arkansas. I don't know if there's any direct connection, but the Confederates went on to lose Little Rock to the Union forces. Perhaps if Marmaduke and Walker had been more concerned with preparing a defense, things could have turned out differently.
 
Gen. John Sappington Marmaduke killed Gen. Lucius M. Walker in a duel in Arkansas. I don't know if there's any direct connection, but the Confederates went on to lose Little Rock to the Union forces. Perhaps if Marmaduke and Walker had been more concerned with preparing a defense, things could have turned out differently.
This is a prime example of what I was wondering about @Patrick H. We can’t know the outcome if they hadn’t duelled, but it can’t have helped anyone that they did. Even my avatar got in a fist fight on the field. These thing can’t have been good for the men under their command.
 
Bragg and everybody is an obvious choice. There were many times when his feuding with nearly all his generals severely impacted the outcome of the battles he fought, and undermined his authority as well.

Another would be Joe Johnston and his commander-in-chief Jefferson Davis. A little less pride on both sides would have gone a long way!
 
Bragg and everybody is an obvious choice. There were many times when his feuding with nearly all his generals severely impacted the outcome of the battles he fought, and undermined his authority as well.

Another would be Joe Johnston and his commander-in-chief Jefferson Davis. A little less pride on both sides would have gone a long way!
You hit the nail on the head, @diane. NBF’s greatest service in the war was getting in Bragg’s face!
 
Beauregard vs Johnston at 1st Manassas and the rest of the War

Nathan Bedford Forrest vs Joseph Wheeler at Fort Donaldson with the statement “This is not a personal matter, but you will tell General Bragg in your report that I will be in my coffin before I will fight under you again.” Imagine what would have happened if Forrest thought it personal?

Nathan Bedford Forrest vs Braxton Bragg during the Siege of Chattanooga with Forrest stating “I have stood your meanness as long as I intend to. You have played the part of a damned scoundrel, and are a coward, and if you were any part of a man I would slap your jaws and force you to resent it…. If you ever again try to interfere with me or cross my path, it will be at the peril of your life.”

Braxton Bragg vs Everybody including himself. This subject would require a thread of its own!

James Longstreet vs Brig. Gen. J.B. Robertson, commander of Hood's Texas Brigade, charging him with “alleged delinquency and pessimistic remarks during the [Knoxville] campaign.”

James Longstreet vs Lafayette McLaws, during the Knoxville Campaign, accusing that he “exhibit a want of confidence in the efforts and plans which the commanding general had thought proper to adopt.”

Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson vs A. P. Hill, Richard Garnett for not following his orders, thoughts etc.

John S. Marmaduke vs Lucius M. Walker engaged in a "Matter of Honor" in which Walker was mortally wounded.

Colonel George W. Baylor shot Brig. Gen. John A. Wharton, during an argument Baylor shot the unarmed Wharton causing his death. Wharton was unarmed but no charges were filed. I believe it was a Texas thing?

Lest their be any confusion over the source of this material, I have acknowledged the author below.
Regards
David
https://www.historynet.com/souths-feuding-generals-november-99-americas-civil-war-feature.htm
 
Henry Halleck's distrust of U S Grant resulted in his removal of that officer from a position where he proved to be highly effective. If Lincoln had not stepped in and said prove he's a drunk - until you do he's back on the job, history would have been changed. Ft Donelson, Shiloh, Vicksburg - everywhere Grant was, he would not have been there.

Henry Halleck also saved W T Sherman from being discarded for going nuts. Halleck knew Sherman very well from pre-war days in California and believed Sherman had had some type of mental set-back but was not insane. Needed a rest - so Halleck sent him off to his wife Ellen for a while. Sherman returned fit as a fiddle and went on to take Atlanta, march through Georgia and settle up with Johnston in North Carolina. However, Halleck began to worry about Sherman being in a position to take over the government after Lincoln's death and there came a heavy rift between the two that never healed. The thing was well publicized and Sherman's extremely loyal men read of it - during the big parade in Washington, they passed a window Halleck sat in watching and all turned their heads away and did not salute. This guy managed to tick off a whole army!
 
Henry Halleck's distrust of U S Grant resulted in his removal of that officer from a position where he proved to be highly effective. If Lincoln had not stepped in and said prove he's a drunk - until you do he's back on the job, history would have been changed. Ft Donelson, Shiloh, Vicksburg - everywhere Grant was, he would not have been there.

Henry Halleck also saved W T Sherman from being discarded for going nuts. Halleck knew Sherman very well from pre-war days in California and believed Sherman had had some type of mental set-back but was not insane. Needed a rest - so Halleck sent him off to his wife Ellen for a while. Sherman returned fit as a fiddle and went on to take Atlanta, march through Georgia and settle up with Johnston in North Carolina. However, Halleck began to worry about Sherman being in a position to take over the government after Lincoln's death and there came a heavy rift between the two that never healed. The thing was well publicized and Sherman's extremely loyal men read of it - during the big parade in Washington, they passed a window Halleck sat in watching and all turned their heads away and did not salute.
sat in watching and all turned their heads away and did not salute. This
Henry Halleck's distrust of U S Grant resulted in his removal of that officer from a position where he proved to be highly effective. If Lincoln had not stepped in and said prove he's a drunk - until you do he's back on the job, history would have been changed. Ft Donelson, Shiloh, Vicksburg - everywhere Grant was, he would not have been there.

Henry Halleck also saved W T Sherman from being discarded for going nuts. Halleck knew Sherman very well from pre-war days in California and believed Sherman had had some type of mental set-back but was not insane. Needed a rest - so Halleck sent him off to his wife Ellen for a while. Sherman returned fit as a fiddle and went on to take Atlanta, march through Georgia and settle up with Johnston in North Carolina. However, Halleck began to worry about Sherman being in a position to take over the government after Lincoln's death and there came a heavy rift between the two that never healed. The thing was well publicized and Sherman's extremely loyal men read of it - during the big parade in Washington, they passed a window Halleck sat in watching and all turned their heads away and did not salute. This guy managed to tick off a whole army!
Halleck was a terrible gossip, and I believe he was jealous of Grant’s success. Imagine if he had convinced Lincoln of Grant’s unfitness! IMO, other than the Confederates, Halleck did great damage to the Union. ( Anyone can correct me if I’m wrong) Didn’t Sherman write a letter to Halleck saying “ We best not meet ever again.” I believe Sherman held a grudge (as anyone would) over the accusation by Halleck and Stanton that he was going to march his army into Washington and overthrow the Republic, and set himself up as a dictator. A more serious and damaging rumor I cannot imagine.
 
That's true - it was mostly Stanton who feared Sherman and those two got along not at all. Getting into the grandstand for the big victory parade, Sherman made a point of observing Stanton's outstretched hand but not shaking it. Brrrr! Halleck wasn't sure, but he went along for the ride - he did conclude Sherman was not going to stage a coup. What offended the general's army was that their beloved Uncle Billy was suspected of wanting to overthrow the government they had fought to defend, and that they would help him do it!

Well, like a lot of desk jockeys, Halleck wanted to try his hand a a real field command! He did learn he was the worst general on either side and the best administrator on either side. Fortunately for Grant, he decided to employ his talents where best they could be used.
 
Thanks, @diane, Halleck was a great administrator, I’d forgotten that after being offended on behalf of Generals Grant and Sherman :bounce: Stanton was a piece of work ( as was Sherman), and Sherman and his army were absolutley right to not engage with either of them.
 
The Price-McCulloch feud hampered any potential opportunity for south in the T-M, most of it from McCullochs side seems rather baseless, personally have always thought McCulloch was over his head in the ACW, He certainly was brave prior but had generally lead only small actions as Indian fighter/Texas Ranger/Mexican war, as army commander seemed over his head and overly cautious.

His criticism and poor evaluation of MSG seems especially baseless as they bore the brunt of the fighting at Bloody Hill at WC, and carried their part of the field fighting at Elkhorn tavern to only see McCulloch fail to carry his at PR. The same troops went on be the considered the best also during the Vicksburg campaign. Apparently evaluating fighting potential of troops wasnt McCullochs strong suit. If one reads Dabney's Maurys impression prior to PR compared to McCullochs they are night and day, and events seem to bear out Maurys over McCullochs.
 
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I forgot another import feud but it did not involve 2 generals.

Nathan Bedford Forrest vs Lieutenant Andrew Wills Gould was the result of the loss of cannons in a clash with the Federals near Cedar Bluff, Alabama. It appears that Forrest believed Gould was at fault and moved to have him removed from his command. Gould took offense and sought satisfaction from the General and pulled a gun and shot Forrest in his abdomen then Forrest used his penknife to stab Gould in his left side. When Gould fled Forrest yelled "Get out of my way! I am mortally wounded and will kill the man who has shot me!" and chased him down. Gould fell from blood lose and died weeks later. Oddly enough Forrest exhorted the physicians to save the young man's life and paid for his care but to no avail.

What a complicated man Forrest was.
Regards
David
http://civilwaref.blogspot.com/2013/07/nathan-bedford-forrest-born-july-13-1821.html
 
Union Major General "Bull" Nelson was shot and killed by Union Brigadier General Jefferson C. Davis at the Galt House hotel in Louisville on September 29, 1862. The two had been feuding with Nelson insulting Davis by saying “Go away, you d---d puppy,” “I don’t want anything to do with you.” Davis got hold of a pistol and calmly shot Nelson to death. Although Davis was arrested, he was never tried. He was released to resume field command until the end of the war, but was never granted any regular promotion.
 
I forgot another import feud but it did not involve 2 generals.

Nathan Bedford Forrest vs Lieutenant Andrew Wills Gould was the result of the loss of cannons in a clash with the Federals near Cedar Bluff, Alabama. It appears that Forrest believed Gould was at fault and moved to have him removed from his command. Gould took offense and sought satisfaction from the General and pulled a gun and shot Forrest in his abdomen then Forrest used his penknife to stab Gould in his left side. When Gould fled Forrest yelled "Get out of my way! I am mortally wounded and will kill the man who has shot me!" and chased him down. Gould fell from blood lose and died weeks later. Oddly enough Forrest exhorted the physicians to save the young man's life and paid for his care but to no avail.

What a complicated man Forrest was.
Regards
David
http://civilwaref.blogspot.com/2013/07/nathan-bedford-forrest-born-july-13-1821.html

There were a whole lot of very strange things happened all at the same time during that short period of time, too. About the time Gould and Forrest were wrassling around in the breezeway, Capt Morton had been told his lieutenant was going to talk to Forrest. He knew this would not end well, so he grabbed the first saddled horse he saw and went galloping down the Columbia turnpike to stop whatever was going to happen. At that moment, somebody thundered into the Galloway house just outside of town, where Willie and his mother were staying. Forrest had his headquarters in the hotel in town and was giving his wife some distance for rest. Didn't get much after she heard her husband had been shot and was now hunting down the guy who shot him. So, we have Willie and Mary Ann bouncing down the same turnpike in a one horse buggy with the same goal as Morton. While the provost marshal was maneuvering his men so more of them wouldn't get shot, Forrest was running down a side alley to head off Gould, who had already crashed and burned in the back yard of his cousin's place. An old man was sleeping upstairs and heard the shooting - he fell off the couch he was on and began dancing around holding his head, screaming, "They done blowed my head off!" He danced over to the window and watched Forrest stop at a little shack and push the door open, gun in hand. Therein was an elderly black man brewing his afternoon tea as if nothing in the world was going on. Forrest asked if he'd seen anybody. Nope. Just that feller over there in the grass. And he went back to his tea!

Nobody knows what really happened in the breezeway - both Gould and Forrest told somewhat different stories. There were three little boys who watched the whole thing, and some years after the event one of them wrote what he saw. It wasn't much! He said it all happened so very fast he really didn't know who did what to who when or where. All he saw was the two men scuffling, then a bang, then one ran away. There were always kids hanging around whenever Forrest came to town so the boys tried to go inside to see if the general was killed - they were stopped. But, it wasn't long before they saw Forrest again!
 
Much more seriously, how did the feuding effect the rank and file? How did it impact the outcome of battles?

"The desire of General " Shank " Evans to have his brigade of South Carolinians assigned to Whiting's division, on the day after the enemy was routed at Second Manassas, was, at first blush, a compliment; we had no objection to sharing the honors of the future with a brigade which had gained renown at Ball's Bluff. But the desire appeared so soon to be wholly self-serving that we regretted our complaisance, and would willingly have foregone the flattery. Evans's commission as brigadier-general ante-dated that of Hood, and this gave him command of the division in the absence of General Whiting. When, therefore, Evans's first act of authority was an unwarranted demand on Hood to turn over to Evans's quartermaster a lot of nice ambulances Texas scouts had captured, and which had been appropriated to our use and benefit, and when Hood, refusing, was placed under arrest by Evans and deprived of command, the indignation of the Texans was all the deeper because of the necessity of suppressing it.
Nor did it find audible expression until the sound of the enemy's guns on the 14th of September, and the sight of our beloved General riding, with bowed head, in the rear of the men who trusted him, emphasized the outrage, and forced an appeal to supreme authority. General Lee sat on his horse by the side of the road, almost within reach of the enemy's guns, and each Texan as he passed joined in the meaning refrain to the deep-seated resolve, " If there's any fighting to be done by the Texas Brigade, Hood must command it."
Understanding the full significance of the demand, Lee raised his hat courteously, and replied laconically, " You shall have him, gentlemen," and immediately dispatched an aid to inform Hood of his release from arrest. The men began to cheer, but when our gallant General, his head uncovered and his face proud and joyful, galloped by to his rightful place at the head of the column, the cheers deepened into a roar that drowned the volleys of the hundred cannon that were even then vengefully thundering at the Gap."

From 'Charming Nellie'

Nice avatar, by the way.
 
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