Ethan S.
First Sergeant
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2019
- Location
- Carter County Kentucky
I love provenance when it comes to artifacts. That's why I make sure mine is documented to the best of my ability.
Heres an example of surface finds, the etley in the lower right is 5 1/2 inches, hard to find them as the larger points are ussually so broken from farming, you generally find mabye 1/3 of itI agree here its mostly shallow, but thats why I disagree recovery is destructive.
I live in the Midwest, own a farm and live in rural area, so I tend to specialize In hunting field sites. Every single year a field is tilled, some artifact's are damaged, others destroyed, regardless all will be moved around from their orginal location. The longer a field is tilled the more the disruption will be from any orginal locations context, in many cases here the fields have already been farmed and disrupted for over 150 years. I have seen fields were they tilled right over Indian mounds and mounds are barely perceptible to the eye anymore. Dont see how recovery in these cases could be anymore destructive then non recovery...........And because everything is constantly being moved around every year, dont really have to dig, most Indian artifacts are surface finds, new ones brought to surface every year
Over 406 million acres in the US are in cropland production
Nice points!Heres an example of surface finds, the etley in the lower right is 5 1/2 inches, hard to find them as the larger points are ussually so broken from farming, you generally find mabye 1/3 of it
View attachment 323704
I agree.In the past, when the "science' was young, it may have been true that "archaeologists" merely wanted to collect valuable stuff. I'm thinking, for example, of Heinrich Schliemann and the discovery and subsequent looting of Troy, and the looting of Egypt in the 19th and early 20th centuries. However, I believe that it's unfair to suggest that archaeologists today want a monopoly on their "toys." In my experience that has never been the case. I've never known an archaeologist who simply wanted to collect stuff to place in a museum or storage somewhere. All I've known and worked with were genuinely interested in the scientific and cultural value of the work that they do and the opportunity to interpret their work for lay persons as well as other professionals.
I worked with one archaeologist who told me that he had taken an oath as a professional not to collect for his own use any archaeological find. I have never thought to ask other archaeologists I've known if that is expected of them such as the Hippocratic oath is for physicians. Anyone here know?
It would behoove collectors/diggers to familiarize themselves with the National Historic Preservation Act (NHPA) and the Archaeological Resources Protection Act (ARPA), which cover collecting on Federal lands, both digging (generally not allowed without a permit) and picking up resources on the surface. There is an interesting exception in ARPA to collecting arrowheads, but it isn't directly related to this thread, so I won't get into it. If anyone is interested, simply Google "arrowhead collecting" and you'll probably find plenty of information on the so-called "Carter loophole."
Those are indeed some nice stone points, BTW.
I agree here its mostly shallow, but thats why I disagree recovery is destructive.
I live in the Midwest, own a farm and live in rural area, so I tend to specialize In hunting field sites. Every single year a field is tilled, some artifact's are damaged, others destroyed, regardless all will be moved around from their orginal location. The longer a field is tilled the more the disruption will be from any orginal locations context, in many cases here the fields have already been farmed and disrupted for over 150 years. I have seen fields were they tilled right over Indian mounds and mounds are barely perceptible to the eye anymore. Dont see how recovery in these cases could be anymore destructive then non recovery...........And because everything is constantly being moved around every year, dont really have to dig, most Indian artifacts are surface finds, new ones brought to surface every year
Over 406 million acres in the US are in cropland production
The issue is one of accidental and intentional destruction in my mind. Farmers don’t go out with an intent to dig up relics... much of the archeology of my midwestern town was found accidentally by farmers in the 19th century. It should be pointed out though that they turned their finds over to Dr Kirtland who was the nearest thing we then had to a professional archeologist and some even reported the location of their finds.
Certainly if a area is very disturbed by farming then that would be a pretty compelling case not to leave things in situe. But the work of retrieving any artifacts ought to be done to professional standards, at very least. Perhaps there could be some sort of state amateur archeology liscence which could be obtained from taking a class lead by a professional so that amateurs could be properly trained. There should also probably be more laws prohibiting development/agriculture on land with any sort of archeological importance. It seems like from the discussion here that would probably be more effective legislatively as it would wholesale destruction of important sites.
My point in mentioning the depth of stratification here in the US was that in terms of damages picking over the surface here as opposed to Europe is more detrimental and we ought to consider that when comparing our situation with theirs.
More laws do scare landowners..a lot. Many important sites that I’m familiar with did have features below the plow line and archaeologists were allowed to dig after the row crop was harvested.The issue is one of accidental and intentional destruction in my mind. Farmers don’t go out with an intent to dig up relics... much of the archeology of my midwestern town was found accidentally by farmers in the 19th century. It should be pointed out though that they turned their finds over to Dr Kirtland who was the nearest thing we then had to a professional archeologist and some even reported the location of their finds.
Certainly if a area is very disturbed by farming then that would be a pretty compelling case not to leave things in situe. But the work of retrieving any artifacts ought to be done to professional standards, at very least. Perhaps there could be some sort of state amateur archeology liscence which could be obtained from taking a class lead by a professional so that amateurs could be properly trained. There should also probably be more laws prohibiting development/agriculture on land with any sort of archeological importance. It seems like from the discussion here that would probably be more effective legislatively as it would wholesale destruction of important sites.
My point in mentioning the depth of stratification here in the US was that in terms of damages picking over the surface here as opposed to Europe is more detrimental and we ought to consider that when comparing our situation with theirs.
More laws do scare landowners..a lot. Many important sites that I’m familiar with did have features below the plow line and archaeologists were allowed to dig after the row crop was harvested.
I think everyone who hunts Indian artifacts, especially, should have a general knowledge of projectile point types and knowledge of basic archaeology. But surface collecting in a plowed, at lots best, is a good way for amateurs to add to their states record of lithic distribution.
Well said.With over 406 million acres in crop production, can you imagine the wait times if every single incident of some artifact being found by a amateur or farmer had to be investigated to evaluate the site by the handful of college staff in most states?...........
Well said.
There's too much land to check everything professionally.
I'm sure your right.Its like construction crews are supposed to report evidence to have sites evaluated, I like to think if its evident they are on something of obvious significence they would, however i have no doubt they dont stop to report every single individual find
Well they are in effect the same thing, dont think anyone has suggested laws or a code that would restrict the recovery of historical artifacts to just a 4 year period of artifacts.Hmmm ... the subject seems to have drifted into the ethics of private, amateur digging of ancient artifacts (e.g. American native) and that is a different question than the OP which was about the digging of American Civil War artifacts. These are different things. I simply don't see any reason to restrict the collection of nineteenth-century objects on private land and haven't seen yet a good reason articulated for restricting such. I have spoken.
I know that some “relic” hunters utilize a software called Relic Record which does just as you proposed. I think @Tom Hughes uploads his finds into that program or something similar.Here's a question for those of you who do metal detecting: what happens to your collection when you die? Will your kids parcel it out to friends and/relatives? Will any notes you've taken or made accompany the object? Will the stuff be scattered to the four winds or, if it's still in the family 50 years on, will they know what it is? If not, then the preservation/salvage argument only lasts as long as you do.
There's been mention of donating collections to museums and historical societies, but there's also been mention made of how much is enough? Does the Adams County (PA) Historical Society really need a hundred more musket balls? More importantly, do they have the resources to properly curate the items? Do they have the room to store the items? If it's a ferrous item, its preservation is costly just because it rusts. Chances are, they do not have the resources needed and will decline accepting the items.
So, how 'bout this? As you find and document these objects, why not take digital images of them? Include digital copies of your research notes, sketches, GPS coordinates, etc. Put it all on a thumb drive and give it to the local, county, state historical society or local museum. The information will be available for future researchers and it won't cost the institution time, money, or space. So if the g-g-grandkids don't know that the chunk of metal in a drawer came from one of Custer's cavalrymen and pitches it (not a great example, but you get the point), future researchers will still have access to the information and the digital model. And your collection survives.
Here's a question for those of you who do metal detecting: what happens to your collection when you die? Will your kids parcel it out to friends and/relatives? Will any notes you've taken or made accompany the object? Will the stuff be scattered to the four winds or, if it's still in the family 50 years on, will they know what it is? If not, then the preservation/salvage argument only lasts as long as you do.
There's been mention of donating collections to museums and historical societies, but there's also been mention made of how much is enough? Does the Adams County (PA) Historical Society really need a hundred more musket balls? More importantly, do they have the resources to properly curate the items? Do they have the room to store the items? If it's a ferrous item, its preservation is costly just because it rusts. Chances are, they do not have the resources needed and will decline accepting the items.
So, how 'bout this? As you find and document these objects, why not take digital images of them? Include digital copies of your research notes, sketches, GPS coordinates, etc. Put it all on a thumb drive and give it to the local, county, state historical society or local museum. The information will be available for future researchers and it won't cost the institution time, money, or space. So if the g-g-grandkids don't know that the chunk of metal in a drawer came from one of Custer's cavalrymen and pitches it (not a great example, but you get the point), future researchers will still have access to the information and the digital model. And your collection survives.
I know that some “relic” hunters utilize a software called Relic Record which does just as you proposed. I think @Tom Hughes uploads his finds into that program or something similar.