Eric Foner Course Part II: The Civil War Years 1861-1865

What do you think of Foner describing David Donald's Lincoln as interpreting Lincoln through the lens of Bill Clinton?
 
Foner now looks at the world the war made. The landscape of loss and suffering, of triumph, of emancipation are all elements of the new world.


He ends with Frodo.
 
Foner gives a brief reflection on how the Civil War is taught in high schools and the enduring interest of Americans in it.

 
What do you think of Foner describing David Donald's Lincoln as interpreting Lincoln through the lens of Bill Clinton?

I'm a little in agreement but don't see Lincoln as just being buffeted about by circumstance. I think he managed to control a lot of things by decree or use of clever politics. Of course, he and everybody else had to react to unexpected events and - as Foner notes - made miscalculations that had to be rethought.

I've read Donald and am in agreement with Foner's criticism - Donald does seem to interpret Lincoln as just reacting to immediate crises. In the end I think Lincoln a more complicated figure; neither a saint or just a pinball wizard.

p.s. - I had to endure Tim to hear what Foner said. I find Tim grating - a bad acid trip Woody Allen. So maybe now you owe me a beer.:balanced:
 
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I'm a little in agreement but don't see Lincoln as just being buffeted about by circumstance. I think he managed to control a lot of things by decree or use of clever politics. Of course, he and everybody else had to react to unexpected events and - as Foner notes - made miscalculations that had to be rethought.

I've read Donald and am in agreement with Foner's criticism - Donald does seem to interpret Lincoln as just reacting to immediate crises. In the end I think Lincoln a more complicated figure; neither a saint or just a pinball wizard.

p.s. - I had to endure Tim to hear what Foner said. I find Tim grating - a bad acid trip Woody Allen. So maybe now you owe me a beer.:balanced:
I read Donald's bio when it first came out and was really impressed. Then my intern, who had taken Donald's course, disabused me of my biographer worship.
 
One of the students put up this interesting link:

Copperhead Catechism
discussion posted 5 days ago by Mary3


"The Copperhead Catechism was a Republican satirical pamphlet in response to "The Lincoln Catechism" (see http://hcl.harvard.edu/libraries/houghton/exhibits/lincoln/gettysburg/38.cfm ). The cover has a drawing of what I think is Lady Liberty with a poisonous (Copperhead) snake coiled around her neck and threatening to bite her. You can find the whole thing here: https://archive.org/details/copperheadcatech00inwils .
 
I read Donald's bio when it first came out and was really impressed. Then my intern, who had taken Donald's course, disabused me of my biographer worship.

Really? I took Donald's course in the late 80s and we undergrads universally adored the guy. In homage, we imitated his soft-spoken Mississippi accent at every opportunity! What was your intern's criticism? I thought his Lincoln bio was very good when it came out, but not as good as his work on Sumner. Foner's comment about Donald's Lincoln as Clinton reminds me of someone's observation that Spielberg/Kushner's Lincoln movie was really about Obama passing the health care bill.
 
Really? I took Donald's course in the late 80s and we undergrads universally adored the guy. In homage, we imitated his soft-spoken Mississippi accent at every opportunity! What was your intern's criticism? I thought his Lincoln bio was very good when it came out, but not as good as his work on Sumner. Foner's comment about Donald's Lincoln as Clinton reminds me of someone's observation that Spielberg/Kushner's Lincoln movie was really about Obama passing the health care bill.
Dan Smulian, now a professor at Brooklyn Law was the intern. I can't really recall those conversations 20 years ago, though.
 
"Slavery created the Confederacy and slavery destroyed the Confederacy." -Foner

That was a good quote, though I think it more accurate if amended to:

"Slavery created America and slavery destroyed the Confederacy."
(With America here understood to be the USA, just to be clear with our Latin American friends.)

Also, I believe Foner was quoting an Italian historian, who, sadly, I'd never heard of before.
 
In this interview by grad student Tim with Foner, the professor explains how his views on Lincoln have changed over the last 25 years. Living with Lincoln gave him a new appreciation for Lincoln.


Man, I like Foner. His observations on Lincoln are terrific, lots of good points to stew over.

Hey, Pat! Many thanks for posting these. I've saved 2.8 to my You Tube page.
 
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A bit
p.s. - I had to endure Tim to hear what Foner said. I find Tim grating - a bad acid trip Woody Allen. So maybe now you owe me a beer.:balanced:

A bit more on bad acid trip Tim:

Tim Shenk
Timothy Shenk is a graduate student in history at Columbia University. His writings have appeared in the Nation, Dissent, and Jacobin, among other venues, and he is the author of Maurice Dobb: Political Economist.
 
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