NF Engineering Victory: How Technology Won the Civil War

Non-Fiction
An amusing story that accompanied Sherman's Atlanta campaign, one was purporedy to have said something like, "No sense burning that bridge, Sherman carries bridges with him.

Of course, that is quite silly, but it is recognition that Sherman's pioneers could put up a bridge in an eyeblink.
 
You're "seconding" a publisher's review of a book you can't possibly have read? Not sure how that helps anyone.

SMH.

Genuflect at anything Yankee much?


Naw I am seconding your suggestion that someone review the book. I've been known to be in awe of Boston Creme Pie, but never when Pecan is around.
 
Came across this plan of a "Pile Bridge, James River near Varina, Va., January, 1865."

Anyone have any knowledge about it?

View attachment 83994

View attachment 83996
Here are a couple of photos of that bridge. Its an interesting combination of cribbed pontons, floating pontons and trestle work along with piles. I suspect, from the location that that portion of the James is influenced by tidal movement. That would have made the construction of the bridge quite complicated. Then add a section to be moved to allow for shipping to pass... Just another day's work for the US Engineers. Essayons!
 

Attachments

  • cwp-2943.jpg
    cwp-2943.jpg
    38.6 KB · Views: 116
  • cwp-6294.jpg
    cwp-6294.jpg
    18.6 KB · Views: 123
Last edited:
Here are a couple of photos of that bridge. Its an interesting combination of cribbed pontons, floating pontons and trestle work along with piles. I suspect, from the location that that portion of the James is influenced by tidal movement. That would have made the construction of the bridge quite complicated. Then add a section to be moved to allow for shipping to pass... Just another day's work for the US Engineers. Essayons!

Thanks for the photos and the info.
 
I suspect, from the location that that portion of the James is influenced by tidal movement. That would have made the construction of the bridge quite complicated.

This is an important point. The tidal range of Virginia's rivers that feed Chesapeake Bay before the fall line are significant. I don't know about the James, but the Potomac at Washington can rise five feet or more, twice a day, depending on weather.
 
"No sense burning that bridge, Sherman carries bridges with him.

THAT is hysterical- you could use it in the cliché sense, is the thing!

Been reading through the replies not ' liking ' posts only because I know less than any person in this conversation about the engineers, pretty funny being so interested in them. Same with ships- know not a thing, still flatten me! The engineering side of the war has the edge though. Red River Dam? Who could not be blown away by that entire story? It is a crazy, crazy story! I mean, does it matter which engineers forced an entire river to cough up stranded ships? To me the operative word is ' engineers '. Yes, to Bailey's credit, the engineers had to figure out how it was accomplished.

It does make sense Union engineers just, plain had more resources, ' resource ' something the entire South was short on, heck, newspapers were being printed on wallpaper and I just came across an article ( maybe on wallpaper ) extolling the virtues, ladies, of homespun v. silk. It's a shame there are not a lot more photos of Confederate engineers at work- LoC features swarms, Union men on RR bridges, pontoons, Dutch Gap Canal.

Fifty bucks?? Have to say it is a little annoying when a book you'd like to read introduces itself at that price. Do I really want to read it? Not sure? If it's a terrific study on Union works, absolutely. Beginners always, always look for those. If it spends a lot of time comparing Union to Confederate, notsomuch. Does anyone else get tired of ' Us v Them '? If the book points out yes, Union engineers were able to overwhelm Confederate efforts- and gets into it factually, it'd be interesting I mean, understanding a lot of the terrific engineering feats of the war, not the shortcomings of one side.
 
Specialty books are often expensive at first, maybe forever, but most often in a year it will be very reasonable on kindle or ex library books.
 
This is an important point. The tidal range of Virginia's rivers that feed Chesapeake Bay before the fall line are significant. I don't know about the James, but the Potomac at Washington can rise five feet or more, twice a day, depending on weather.
During the reenactment of Fredericksburg in 2012, the Virginia NG set a ribbon bridge that was too short because they did not count on approaches changing as the river rose. It was quite a scene. Pics are on our website http://www.usengineerbn.net
 
I would probably read it because Engineers contributions are often overlooked. IE: Battle of the Bulge just for reference, later BotB engineers were recognized.

I would not pay the money for the book. But eventually I would find it in a used book store or would possibly trade something for it.
I think of Roebling right away. Iirc he was in a hot air balloon watching confederates begin their crossing of the Potomac and start to move north. And of course he did build some nice bridges. He had a pretty popular Brother in Law who was also an engineer.
I have not seen this book in any of my local stores. I would have browsed it.
 
It does make sense Union engineers just, plain had more resources, ' resource ' something the entire South was short on, heck, newspapers were being printed on wallpaper and I just came across an article ( maybe on wallpaper ) extolling the virtues, ladies, of homespun v. silk. It's a shame there are not a lot more photos of Confederate engineers at work- LoC features swarms, Union men on RR bridges, pontoons, Dutch Gap Canal.

Fifty bucks?? Have to say it is a little annoying when a book you'd like to read introduces itself at that price. Do I really want to read it?

JPK we are both C Pa'ers.
Just based on where you live I would think you would see the connection between 'resources' and lack thereof or abundance or, being tied to the industrialization brought about by....... wait for it........ engineers?

The Union would not have had the resources it did if not for? Pennsylvania Canal system. Engineering marvel. Pennsylvania Coal industry. Engineering marvels. Coal fed the Central Pa ....Ironworks just down the canal from you at Duncannon and Hbg. Not to mention the amazing engineering feats prior to the civil war and during that created several RR's that carried all those 'resources' through central Pa. branching east towards Reading and Philly and branching westward towards Altoona and Pittsburgh. Trouble getting east to west in Central Pa? No, because of the vast bridges engineered to make it easy. Susquehanna...Pffft no problem.

You know why Newspapers in the Union continued to print as usual and were not printing on wallpaper? Because engineers and 'greasy lowlife mechanics' had made it such that the Union was not blockaded and enjoyed a robust Industrial base built upon an awesome transportation system.

I say this because we literally sit in the middle of an area built by accomplished engineers.
It is why we had 'resources'
 
JPK we are both C Pa'ers.
Just based on where you live I would think you would see the connection between 'resources' and lack thereof or abundance or, being tied to the industrialization brought about by....... wait for it........ engineers?

The Union would not have had the resources it did if not for? Pennsylvania Canal system. Engineering marvel. Pennsylvania Coal industry. Engineering marvels. Coal fed the Central Pa ....Ironworks just down the canal from you at Duncannon and Hbg. Not to mention the amazing engineering feats prior to the civil war and during that created several RR's that carried all those 'resources' through central Pa. branching east towards Reading and Philly and branching westward towards Altoona and Pittsburgh. Trouble getting east to west in Central Pa? No, because of the vast bridges engineered to make it easy. Susquehanna...Pffft no problem.

You know why Newspapers in the Union continued to print as usual and were not printing on wallpaper? Because engineers and 'greasy lowlife mechanics' had made it such that the Union was not blockaded and enjoyed a robust Industrial base built upon an awesome transportation system.

I say this because we literally sit in the middle of an area built by accomplished engineers.
It is why we had 'resources'

Ha! Yes, although please do not allow anyone to refer to a mechanic as greasy or low life in my hearing. There would be several bazillion people standing on the side of useless macadam wondering how in blazes to saddle a horses were it not for mechanics. It is odd how perspectives develop!

Preaching to the choir, love our PA systems, had the state the sense to have continued an excellent engineering heritage. There's an old canal by the river in Millersburg, PA you can still go see, filled with turtles, frog and heron- still make out the mule's path, too. Very cool. Dad belonged to the PA canal society, was so, so interested by them all his life having grown up in Tamaqua and had Schuylkill Haven as a stomping ground. What no one told him as a child, weirdly, was his grandmother's family built and ran canal boats out of Schuylkill Haven, 2 grgrandfathers were boatmen. Another side on his tree were RR men. You see ' Fireman ', ' Brakeman ', through the census records. The boatmen went to war, one a regular army cavalry regiment, one Schuylkill County infantry- so, so many regiments from there!

Anyway, the old canal history flattens me, to be sure. The RR history too although do not claim to be a buff. Dad was, my uncle, his brother is, can name all the old connections and lines from when they ran. He and Dad used them regularly when trains were the way to travel- did the Philadelphia trip quite often. I don't think Dad ever drove there when in school in Philly. Of course, the RR heritage ended with Grandpop. Sign painter in Tamaqua. He once got a lot of folks awfully excited by swiping an entire train. He was very sorry, he said, he'd always wanted to see if he could drive one. Transpired he could, a careless kind of engineer having left his station while the thing was running. Just one station, arrived to find quite a stir. No charges, but boy, were they mad. Grandpop was always vaguely surprised they were, I think. You'd have to have known him. Seemed perfectly reasonable, running a train from station to station with the best of intentions.

Have you come across a wonderful, amazing site? Schuylkill Haven History. OH my gosh. Canal and RR history of the area, Civil War and GAR history- pretty much anything. Canal photos that will knock your socks off history and records. One man has out it together, no idea how he did it.
 
Ha! Yes, although please do not allow anyone to refer to a mechanic as greasy or low life in my hearing. There would be several bazillion people standing on the side of useless macadam wondering how in blazes to saddle a horses were it not for mechanics. It is odd how perspectives develop!

Preaching to the choir, love our PA systems, had the state the sense to have continued an excellent engineering heritage. There's an old canal by the river in Millersburg, PA you can still go see, filled with turtles, frog and heron- still make out the mule's path, too. Very cool. Dad belonged to the PA canal society, was so, so interested by them all his life having grown up in Tamaqua and had Schuylkill Haven as a stomping ground. What no one told him as a child, weirdly, was his grandmother's family built and ran canal boats out of Schuylkill Haven, 2 grgrandfathers were boatmen. Another side on his tree were RR men. You see ' Fireman ', ' Brakeman ', through the census records. The boatmen went to war, one a regular army cavalry regiment, one Schuylkill County infantry- so, so many regiments from there!

Anyway, the old canal history flattens me, to be sure. The RR history too although do not claim to be a buff. Dad was, my uncle, his brother is, can name all the old connections and lines from when they ran. He and Dad used them regularly when trains were the way to travel- did the Philadelphia trip quite often. I don't think Dad ever drove there when in school in Philly. Of course, the RR heritage ended with Grandpop. Sign painter in Tamaqua. He once got a lot of folks awfully excited by swiping an entire train. He was very sorry, he said, he'd always wanted to see if he could drive one. Transpired he could, a careless kind of engineer having left his station while the thing was running. Just one station, arrived to find quite a stir. No charges, but boy, were they mad. Grandpop was always vaguely surprised they were, I think. You'd have to have known him. Seemed perfectly reasonable, running a train from station to station with the best of intentions.

Have you come across a wonderful, amazing site? Schuylkill Haven History. OH my gosh. Canal and RR history of the area, Civil War and GAR history- pretty much anything. Canal photos that will knock your socks off history and records. One man has out it together, no idea how he did it.


The comment about 'greasy mechanics' is from an Alabama newspaper in 1856 (Muskogee Herald). It was quoted recently in an article in Atlantic Magazine regarding the reasons for secession. What were leaders and papers of the time saying:

"Free Society! we sicken at the name. What is it but a conglomeration of greasy mechanics, filthy operatives, small-fisted farmers, and moon-struck theorists? All the Northern men and especially the New England States are devoid of society fitted for well-bred gentlemen. The prevailing class one meet with is that of mechanics struggling to be genteel, and small farmers who do their own drudgery, and yet are hardly fit for association with a Southern gentleman's body servant. This is your free society which Northern hordes are trying to extend into Kansas. "

As you stated...we live in an area that has an 'excellent engineering heritage.'

I rechecked the Book Store in Harrisburg to see if they had the book. I can't afford to buy it, but I wanted to browse it and see what kind of information it might uncover. They do not stock it. Anyways...

Central Pa in Washington's day was not known for vast resources. When Washington passed through in the 1790's to put down a little Whiskey Rebellion he made comments about how hard it was to feed his army (food and forage). His comment about 'those damned Laurel highlands' where nothing can live is recorded in his memoirs.

What happened between 1790 and 1861 was that engineers and greasy mechanics brought RR's ,canals, mines, bridges and mills and we prospered because of it. By 1861 central pa had vastly more resources to contribute to the Union cause.

In recent threads there are discussions about the vast bridging projects carried out in the war, obviously Railroads played a huge part. Construction of winter quarters, forts, redoubts all were part of the Union victory.

I would read the book once it becomes reasonable in price. It is an area of the war the had not had a lot written about it.
I would like to learn more.

In my opinion lots of brave trigger pullers was not enough to win the war. It took many greasy mechanics too...
 
I would not pay the money for the book. But eventually I would find it in a used book store or would possibly trade something for it.
Don't be afraid to request the book through your local interlibrary loan. If your librarians don't find the book they can request it from another library or put it on the acquisitions list.
 
Specialty books are often expensive at first, maybe forever, but most often in a year it will be very reasonable on kindle or ex library books.
My understanding of the academic press is that they pour resources into titles like the "The Art of the 300 Block of Maple Street" and hope to sell 500 copies. That might be part of the price point. Also, publishers know that CW buffs can be relied upon to support new works. As for being something the wider market might buy, it's just too expensive.
 
Basically, it was the first "technological" war of the industrial era, when the weapon development and technological level was the essential part of overall actions. No previous war was so depen of technological parity and improvements.
 
Just wanted to give this a bump to see if anyone has read it. Price on Amazon still a little stiff for my wallet. And only one review. Have a couple different titles from Johns Hopkins University Press and they haven't disappointed me so far...

Thanks,
USS ALASKA
 
View attachment 83971

Thomas F. Army, Jr. (author)
Johns Hopkins University Press (April 29, 2016)

Engineering Victory brings a fresh approach to the question of why the North prevailed in the Civil War. Historian Thomas F. Army, Jr., identifies strength in engineering―not superior military strategy or industrial advantage―as the critical determining factor in the war’s outcome.

Army finds that Union soldiers were able to apply scientific ingenuity and innovation to complex problems in a way that Confederate soldiers simply could not match. Skilled Free State engineers who were trained during the antebellum period benefited from basic educational reforms, the spread of informal educational practices, and a culture that encouraged learning and innovation. During the war, their rapid construction and repair of roads, railways, and bridges allowed Northern troops to pass quickly through the forbidding terrain of the South as retreating and maneuvering Confederates struggled to cut supply lines and stop the Yankees from pressing any advantage.

By presenting detailed case studies from both theaters of the war, Army clearly demonstrates how the soldiers’ education, training, and talents spelled the difference between success and failure, victory and defeat. He also reveals massive logistical operations as critical in determining the war’s outcome.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/14...&tag=civilwarbooks-20&linkId=UM2GJMRV44ODEFBN

Disclaimer: This post is neither a recommendation nor solicitation by CivilWarTalk or Chellers. It is solely for informational purposes.
This book, by its exorbitant price, defends itself from being read by many folks. However, the author's premise seems a tad oversimplified. Did they close all these legions of engineering schools to southern men? "Free state engineers" smacks of prejudice like "German physics". The south was not a totalitarian state that didn't allow free thought from its engineers. The advantages the north had on the engineering front were logistical and economic. The north was simply able to get more done faster. There is no northern engineering feat that southern engineers were incapable of duplicating given the same resources. This is not a "lost cause" excuse. These were real advantages that the north held. Superiority of engineers was not one.
 
This book, by its exorbitant price, defends itself from being read by many folks. However, the author's premise seems a tad oversimplified. Did they close all these legions of engineering schools to southern men? "Free state engineers" smacks of prejudice like "German physics". The south was not a totalitarian state that didn't allow free thought from its engineers. The advantages the north had on the engineering front were logistical and economic. The north was simply able to get more done faster. There is no northern engineering feat that southern engineers were incapable of duplicating given the same resources. This is not a "lost cause" excuse. These were real advantages that the north held. Superiority of engineers was not one.

This is incorrect. The Union engineer branch was much larger and more organized than the Confederates.
 
Agree with a number of the former posters... Confederate engineers lacked nothing in the way of ingenuity, even genius-- what they primarily lacked was the logistics and resources to do the sorts of things Union engineers became noted for.

I remember reading something very similar about the Cold War. While the Soviet 50 lb heads were coming up with just brilliant theoretical breakthroughs, the inability of that economic system to manufacture and distribute something as simple as a calculator for the masses slammed the brakes on the practical application of any groundbreaking ideas.

Cheers,
USS ALASKA
 
Back
Top