Eisenhower on Lee

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cash, just to cut it short: to jim klag robert e lee is a traitor. he's got no intention to feel good about him. for further reading i'd advise miguel de cervantes (especially what he wrote about windmills).

nix fia unguat (bavarian for no offense intented)
Thanks. I appreciate it. The comments seemed to me to indicate the opposite, but I accept what you're telling me.
 

JerseyBart

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So, two threadbanned, possibly more on the way and 20+ posts deleted in 5 minutes. Get with it, stay on a very interesting topic or I’m locking some more of you out of it.

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African-Americans were made residents as involuntarily as Native Americans. They lacked any nation status once here, but weren't native to the continent and didn't immigrate voluntarily like European immigrants.

I find it difficult to answer the question of "was Lee a great American, as Eisenhower thought" if we cannot agree with a consistent definition of who is or isn't an American.

If a Native American served as a scout or similar role for the US Army does that preclude him from being a great Native American? Only if he served against his own tribe?

Lee had to choose between loyalty to two "tribes" - Virginia and the US. Native Americans balancing between their native people and the US perhaps could be said to have a similar struggle. This is the reason Catholics were long distrusted: a (perceived) divided loyalty between country and the Pope.

Eisenhower had no such division of loyalty. He was an American, not an American and a German or American and a Kansan.
for starters: ikes ancestors weren't german but dutch <- i messed this up, sorry

is everyone the us army employs as a scout or interpreter in let's say iraq an american?
... thought so

did the us govt treat any of them as americans? ... thought so, too

sorry, but that just doesn't fly
 
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leftyhunter

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"President Dwight Eisenhower wrote the following letter in response to one he received dated August 1, 1960, from Leon W. Scott, a dentist in New Rochelle, New York. Scott’s letter reads:

“Dear Mr. President:

“At the Republican Convention I heard you mention that you have the pictures of four (4) great Americans in your office, and that included in these is a picture of Robert E. Lee.

“I do not understand how any American can include Robert E. Lee as a person to be emulated, and why the President of the United States of America should do so is certainly beyond me.

“The most outstanding thing that Robert E. Lee did was to devote his best efforts to the destruction of the United States Government, and I am sure that you do not say that a person who tries to destroy our Government is worthy of being hailed as one of our heroes.
“Will you please tell me just why you hold him in such high esteem?

Sincerely yours,
“Leon W. Scott”

Eisenhower's response, written on White House letterhead on August 9, 1960 reads as follows:

August 9, 1960

Dear Dr. Scott:

Respecting your August 1 inquiry calling attention to my often expressed admiration for General Robert E. Lee, I would say, first, that we need to understand that at the time of the War Between the States the issue of Secession had remained unresolved for more than 70 years. Men of probity, character, public standing and unquestioned loyalty, both North and South, had disagreed over this issue as a matter of principle from the day our Constitution was adopted.

General Robert E. Lee was, in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. He believed unswervingly in the Constitutional validity of his cause which until 1865 was still an arguable question in America; he was thoughtful yet demanding of his officers and men, forbearing with captured enemies but ingenious, unrelenting and personally courageous in battle, and never disheartened by a reverse or obstacle. Through all his many trials, he remained selfless almost to a fault and unfailing in his belief in God. Taken altogether, he was noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history.

From deep conviction I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee’s caliber would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities, including his devotion to this land as revealed in his painstaking efforts to help heal the nation’s wounds once the bitter struggle was over, we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained.

Such are the reasons that I proudly display the picture of this great American on my office wall.

Sincerely, Dwight D. Eisenhower"


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1721192/posts

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Eisenhower gave an opinion on Lee. Eisenhower 's opinon is 58 years old. Is it right or wrong can be debated and has. A lot has changed in 58 years so Eisenhower 's assement may not sit well with modern sensibilities.
Leftyhunter
 

Northern Light

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Eisenhower gave an opinion on Lee. Eisenhower 's opinon is 58 years old. Is it right or wrong can be debated and has. A lot has changed in 58 years so Eisenhower 's assement may not sit well with modern sensibilities.
Leftyhunter
Hmmm I think someone said this in post #19 and got jumped on for her troubles.:confused:
 

WJC

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***Posted as Moderator***
Some may have noticed that a number of posts have been deleted. Others have been moved to more appropriate threads.
This time-consuming task required this thread to be temporarily closed. It is now reopened.
Please conduct your discussion of Eisenhower's opinion of Lee in a civil manner, respectful of other members.

Frivolous, argumentive, and off-topic posts will be edited or deleted. Members who ignore the Community Guidelines will be banned from posting.
 

TracyM61

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Kind of late to the party on this one, but I'll add a few of my thoughts.

I happened to watch the discussion posted on one of the other threads - April 9 / Military Rivals: Grant and Lee - and a thought occurred to me why possibly Lee chose to fight for the CSA instead of the Union. Both had troubled relationships with their fathers, which I believe was the deciding factor for Lee's decision to side with Virginia and the Confederacy. Evidently, Lee's father, "Light-Horse Harry" Lee III was the Bernie Madoff of his day. Not only was he a swindler of sorts, and infamous for that alone, he abandoned his family. Reportedly, Lee, while attending West Point received no demerits throughout his entire attendance to the academy, which speaks volumes, as noted by one of the commentators.

In that Lee chose not to fight against his family and fellow Virginians seems to have been out of his deep sense of honor and loyalty to them, not to betray or fail them (unlike his father) in what he most assuredly saw as their time of dire need. Regardless of how we perceive his decision today, IMHO the facts based on this most esteemed aspect of his character is worth remembering and honoring.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?437856-1/military-rivals-ulysses-s-grant-robert-e-lee
 
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Cavalry Charger

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Kind of late to the party on this one, but I'll add a few of my thoughts.

I happened to watch the discussion posted on one of the other threads - April 9 / Military Rivals: Grant and Lee - and a thought occurred to me why possibly Lee chose to fight for the CSA instead of the Union. Both had troubled relationships with their fathers, which I believe was the deciding factor for Lee's decision to side with Virginia and the Confederacy. Evidently, Lee's father, "Light-Horse Harry" Lee III was the Bernie Madoff of his day. Not only was he a swindler of sorts, and infamous for that alone, he abandoned his family. Reportedly, Lee, while attending West Point received no demerits throughout his entire attendance to the academy, which speaks volumes, as noted by one of the commentators.

In that Lee chose not to fight against his family and fellow Virginians seems to have been out of his deep sense of honor and loyalty to them, not to betray or fail them in what he most assuredly saw as their time of dire need. Regardless of how we perceive his decision today, IMHO the facts based on this most esteemed aspect of his character is worth remembering and honoring.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?437856-1/military-rivals-ulysses-s-grant-robert-e-lee
Thanks so much for posting that link @TracyM61 I will look forward to watching it. Interesting thoughts on Lee btw.
 

Northern Light

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Kind of late to the party on this one, but I'll add a few of my thoughts.

I happened to watch the discussion posted on one of the other threads - April 9 / Military Rivals: Grant and Lee - and a thought occurred to me why possibly Lee chose to fight for the CSA instead of the Union. Both had troubled relationships with their fathers, which I believe was the deciding factor for Lee's decision to side with Virginia and the Confederacy. Evidently, Lee's father, "Light-Horse Harry" Lee III was the Bernie Madoff of his day. Not only was he a swindler of sorts, and infamous for that alone, he abandoned his family. Reportedly, Lee, while attending West Point received no demerits throughout his entire attendance to the academy, which speaks volumes, as noted by one of the commentators.

In that Lee chose not to fight against his family and fellow Virginians seems to have been out of his deep sense of honor and loyalty to them, not to betray or fail them in what he most assuredly saw as their time of dire need. Regardless of how we perceive his decision today, IMHO the facts based on this most esteemed aspect of his character is worth remembering and honoring.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?437856-1/military-rivals-ulysses-s-grant-robert-e-lee
He was between a rock and a hard place. Which ever way he went was going to be a difficult decision.
 
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Eisenhower gave an opinion on Lee. Eisenhower 's opinion is 58 years old. Is it right or wrong can be debated and has. A lot has changed in 58 years so Eisenhower 's assessment may not sit well with modern sensibilities.
Lee's sensibilities concerning state loyalties are a lot more than 58 years old, and Eisenhower was well aware of the changing views on this subject over time, not subjecting Lee to 1950's standards.

The state sovereignty issue is long settled. The matter has been decided on the battlefield. America spent 600,000+ lives answering the question.
 
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