Don't Deny Black Confederate Valor

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Andersonh1

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Odd that it never carried over into Jim Crow, segregation, lynchings, Conservative Citizens Councils, KKK terrorism, firehoses, church bombings, attack dogs and lunch counter sit-ins.

You see, "praise and respect" and "patriotic motives" always seems to be rather temporary when need is desperately sought.

"Valor" would seem to be a bit more permanent if it was truly and freely given.

Unionblue
Way to move those goalposts. So now it's not just praise during the war that is needed, but long after as well? I can do that. I'll go through my material and provide some post war praise.
 

Andersonh1

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Here's a start. One thing should be noticed here above all: the Confederate veterans took care of and recognized their own.

Wichita eagle., September 05, 1889
... in point of fact the negroes of the south during the war were just as much Confederates as the most loyal and enthusiastic whites, and re-unions among them commemmorative of the part they played in the great drama are equally as fitting and appropriate, if they choose to do so, as among the whites.

The Lancaster ledger., February 20, 1904
There died in this city last week a very worthy old colored man - one whose faithfulness had been put fully to the test. We refer to Aleck Gooch... When the civil war commenced and young Henry Gooch volunteered for service in the Confederacy Aleck was sent with him as his body servant.... Aleck was known to the entire brigade (Bratton's), and Mr. E. B. Mobley, who was a member, says that in ministering to the sick and wounded Aleck did as much for the Confederacy as any man in the ranks.... Aleck was a good forager and there was never an opportunity for him to confer a kindness upon any soldier, but he did so with alacrity. He was faithful and true under all conditions and glorified in the cause of the South.

The Roswell daily record. (Roswell, N.M.) 1903-current, December 18, 1907
Negro Buried in Confederate Uniform - Ben Shropshire, a negro, was buried here today wearing a Confederate uniform. He served with the Fifth Texas cavalry during the war and was once wounded. He was probably the only negro in Louisiana entitled to a pension from the state. However, he did not draw a pension, but was supported by the Confederate Veterans.

The Washington herald., January 05, 1908
Robert Shropshire, the "old Confederate negro", so well known about the city, who has attended a number of the Confederate reunions, and always wore the gray uniform, is no more.... according to his request, he will be buried in his uniform of Confederate gray, with the conquered banner wound around him... Shropshire was treated with genuine regard by a large number of people, who knew that he was a real Confederate soldier, and was wounded while in the service of the South... some of the Confederate organizations appropriated money monthly for him...

The Chickasha daily express. (Chickasha, Indian Territory [Okla.]) August 24, 1909
Americus [Patterson] is 66 years old, he says, but he doesn't show the effects of age. He has letters from men of distinction in U. C. V. circles testifying to his honorable army service and his good character as a man.

Confederate Veteran Magazine, vol. XVII, 1909, p. 496
Amos Rucker, the Negro Veteran.... In all those long, hard years the 33d Georgia Regiment bore its part in the bloody struggle, and there was no braver member than Sandy Rucker, and shoulder to shoulder with him fought Amos, as though he too was an enlisted man. He took part in every engagement, and, gun or bayonet in hand, stood ready to "close up" whenever there was a vacancy in the line... he joined the Camp of W. H. T. Walker, and there was no more loved nor respected member... at his death in Atlanta in August, 1909 there was universal sorrow... Camp Walker defrayed all burial expenses... the funeral services were conducted by Gen. Clement A. Evans, Commander in Chief of the Veterans... very tenderly they carried the old veteran to his grave, clothed in his uniform of gray and wrapped in a Confederate flag...

Morning appeal. (Carson City, Nev.) 1877-1906, October 20, 1905
Time and again he gave evidences of his bravery and his loyalty to the south... when a camp of Confederate veterans was organized in Atlanta, Rucker was elected to membership and always the camp raised a fund with which to pay his expenses to the annual reunion... his funeral was under the auspices of the camp to which he belonged; his body was borne to the grave by a former governor of Georgia, a former general in the Confederate army, a former governor of Georgia, a judge and a physician who ranks among the foremost of his profession in Atlanta. At the grave another confederate general delivered an eulogy. All this for a negro in the South? Yes.

Richmond times-dispatch., March 18, 1922
Veterans Pay Honor to Negro Confederate - "Alf" Whiting, of Romney, W. Va., one of the few negroes who served in the Confederate army during the Civil War, and whose death occurred a few days ago, was buried at Romney... Confederate veterans acted as honorary pallbearers... Whiting, who was born a slave near Winchester, enlisted in the army in 1861, serving in Company K, Thirteenth Virginia Infantry with Isaac T Brady... captured by Federal troops, and jailed at Cumberland Md... "Alf" was offered his freedom, but refused to take the oath of allegiance or to remain with the Federals... Whiting attended every Confederate reunion within reach, as well as funerals of veterans, and he selected his own pallbearers from among them.

headlines from other accounts about Whiting:
Negro is Honored by Confederates
Southern Vets pay tribute to Deceased Negro
 

unionblue

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Way to move those goalposts. So now it's not just praise during the war that is needed, but long after as well? I can do that. I'll go through my material and provide some post war praise.

Can't you see @Andersonh1 ? The post war treatment of blacks is rooted in the attitudes of Confederate policy and white tradition towards them in the slaveholding South.

If that valor was freely given to blacks, free or slave, don't you think that valor would have been the basis for far better, post war treatment of blacks? My point is, it was never given where it counted, never in a spirit that mattered one whit to slaves and free blacks in the Confederacy. All it came to was a few words on a page, more than likely printed to make whites reading it feel good about themselves about their loyal "darkies."

It all springs from slavery, it all traces back to slavery, the cause that lingers with us here in the 21st century.

You don't have to post any examples past the Civil War, because in my view the fighting stopped on the battlefields, but the war for real valor continued for hearts and minds well into the 20th century.

Unionblue
 

WJC

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It is important to recognize (and we often don't; I have to constantly step outside of my modern centralized mindset) that under the Confederate system, we cannot look at the federal government's opinion as the only one that counted. State government actions are just as important and just as valid.
Certainly at the outset of hostilities. However, the central government asserted itself more as the conflict went on until in the last days, they were the only real government of the rebels.
 

Andersonh1

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If that valor was freely given to blacks, free or slave, don't you think that valor would have been the basis for far better, post war treatment of blacks?

History is not what we think it should have been, history is what it was. And for the purposes of this topic of discussion, it is beyond question that those men who were known to have served in some fashion alongside the white Confederates were often taken care of. Even with the racial divide of the day, the camaraderie was genuine in many instances. That camaraderie sprang from either slaves or free black men who went through the hell of the war with the white men and experienced it with them, and that was not forgotten as those veterans aged and died.
 

WJC

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Here's a start. One thing should be noticed here above all: the Confederate veterans took care of and recognized their own.

Wichita eagle., September 05, 1889
... in point of fact the negroes of the south during the war were just as much Confederates as the most loyal and enthusiastic whites, and re-unions among them commemmorative of the part they played in the great drama are equally as fitting and appropriate, if they choose to do so, as among the whites.

The Lancaster ledger., February 20, 1904
There died in this city last week a very worthy old colored man - one whose faithfulness had been put fully to the test. We refer to Aleck Gooch... When the civil war commenced and young Henry Gooch volunteered for service in the Confederacy Aleck was sent with him as his body servant.... Aleck was known to the entire brigade (Bratton's), and Mr. E. B. Mobley, who was a member, says that in ministering to the sick and wounded Aleck did as much for the Confederacy as any man in the ranks.... Aleck was a good forager and there was never an opportunity for him to confer a kindness upon any soldier, but he did so with alacrity. He was faithful and true under all conditions and glorified in the cause of the South.

The Roswell daily record. (Roswell, N.M.) 1903-current, December 18, 1907
Negro Buried in Confederate Uniform - Ben Shropshire, a negro, was buried here today wearing a Confederate uniform. He served with the Fifth Texas cavalry during the war and was once wounded. He was probably the only negro in Louisiana entitled to a pension from the state. However, he did not draw a pension, but was supported by the Confederate Veterans.

The Washington herald., January 05, 1908
Robert Shropshire, the "old Confederate negro", so well known about the city, who has attended a number of the Confederate reunions, and always wore the gray uniform, is no more.... according to his request, he will be buried in his uniform of Confederate gray, with the conquered banner wound around him... Shropshire was treated with genuine regard by a large number of people, who knew that he was a real Confederate soldier, and was wounded while in the service of the South... some of the Confederate organizations appropriated money monthly for him...

The Chickasha daily express. (Chickasha, Indian Territory [Okla.]) August 24, 1909
Americus [Patterson] is 66 years old, he says, but he doesn't show the effects of age. He has letters from men of distinction in U. C. V. circles testifying to his honorable army service and his good character as a man.

Confederate Veteran Magazine, vol. XVII, 1909, p. 496
Amos Rucker, the Negro Veteran.... In all those long, hard years the 33d Georgia Regiment bore its part in the bloody struggle, and there was no braver member than Sandy Rucker, and shoulder to shoulder with him fought Amos, as though he too was an enlisted man. He took part in every engagement, and, gun or bayonet in hand, stood ready to "close up" whenever there was a vacancy in the line... he joined the Camp of W. H. T. Walker, and there was no more loved nor respected member... at his death in Atlanta in August, 1909 there was universal sorrow... Camp Walker defrayed all burial expenses... the funeral services were conducted by Gen. Clement A. Evans, Commander in Chief of the Veterans... very tenderly they carried the old veteran to his grave, clothed in his uniform of gray and wrapped in a Confederate flag...

Morning appeal. (Carson City, Nev.) 1877-1906, October 20, 1905
Time and again he gave evidences of his bravery and his loyalty to the south... when a camp of Confederate veterans was organized in Atlanta, Rucker was elected to membership and always the camp raised a fund with which to pay his expenses to the annual reunion... his funeral was under the auspices of the camp to which he belonged; his body was borne to the grave by a former governor of Georgia, a former general in the Confederate army, a former governor of Georgia, a judge and a physician who ranks among the foremost of his profession in Atlanta. At the grave another confederate general delivered an eulogy. All this for a negro in the South? Yes.

Richmond times-dispatch., March 18, 1922
Veterans Pay Honor to Negro Confederate - "Alf" Whiting, of Romney, W. Va., one of the few negroes who served in the Confederate army during the Civil War, and whose death occurred a few days ago, was buried at Romney... Confederate veterans acted as honorary pallbearers... Whiting, who was born a slave near Winchester, enlisted in the army in 1861, serving in Company K, Thirteenth Virginia Infantry with Isaac T Brady... captured by Federal troops, and jailed at Cumberland Md... "Alf" was offered his freedom, but refused to take the oath of allegiance or to remain with the Federals... Whiting attended every Confederate reunion within reach, as well as funerals of veterans, and he selected his own pallbearers from among them.

headlines from other accounts about Whiting:
Negro is Honored by Confederates
Southern Vets pay tribute to Deceased Negro
It seems the veterans' organizations during the Jim Crow era were even then trying to instill the notion of the happy, satisfied and intensely loyal slave, ripped from his/her proper place by Yankee Abolitionists up to no good.
 

Andersonh1

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It seems the veterans' organizations during the Jim Crow era were even then trying to instill the notion of the happy, satisfied and intensely loyal slave, ripped from his/her proper place by Yankee Abolitionists up to no good.

I think it's a genuinely sad thing if that's all you take away from the examples I posted. There's clearly more going on than promoting some "happy slave" version of history.
 

CSA Today

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It seems the veterans' organizations during the Jim Crow era were even then trying to instill the notion of the happy, satisfied and intensely loyal slave, ripped from his/her proper place by Yankee Abolitionists up to no good.

Why would veterans' organizations of that era want to do that? Sounds more like modern Yankee propaganda at work than that of a bygone time.
 

WJC

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Why would veterans' organizations of that era want to do that? Sounds more like modern Yankee propaganda at work than that of a bygone time.
Thanks for your response.
For the same reason that rebel veterans promulgated the 'Lost Cause' myth.
 

WJC

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Wasn't this about time the Yankee veterans were waving the "bloody shirt" or was it the Northern politicians waving bloody shirts to get the Yankee veterans' vote?
Thanks for your response.
Red herring? I'm sure you'll agree that whether the GAR and other veterans organizations- north or South- were involved in politics has no bearing on the valor of Blacks who served the rebel forces.
 

CSA Today

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Thanks for your response.
Red herring? I'm sure you'll agree that whether the GAR and other veterans organizations- north or South- were involved in politics has no bearing on the valor of Blacks who served the rebel forces.
I wasn't questioning the valor of black Confederates, I responded to your snarky remark about rebel soldiers regardless of race.
 
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WJC

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[QUOTE ="CSA Today, post: 2081132, member: 5903"]I wasn't questioning the valor of black Confederates[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your response.
Nor have I been here or elsewhere. As you will recall, I have applauded @Andersonh1's efforts to document the actual Blacks who served.
 

WJC

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I responded to your snarky remark about rebel soldiers regardless of race.
Thanks for your response.
Just what was "snarky" in any of my remarks regarding the rebel soldiers? As I have often pointed out, they acquitted themselves with remarkable valor, tenacity, and perseverance. For that, they deserve to be honored. One can do that- as I do- while still considering their cause wrong.
 

unionblue

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I don't recall the 1776 secessionists getting prior approval from anybody except themselves.

You keep forgetting (perhaps on purpose?). :smile:

The rebels of 1776 did NOT consider themselves "secessionists" nor feel the need for some kind of fuzzy legal or political cover the word is often used to imply.

You calling them such in your above post and as you have tried repeatedly in other threads, doesn't change that fact nor does their revolution in any way glom over to the reasons for southern unilateral secession.

They knew, without a doubt, they were engaged in a revolution and were themselves revolutionists.

Until our next post,
Unionblue
 

Viper21

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Here's a start. One thing should be noticed here above all: the Confederate veterans took care of and recognized their own.

Wichita eagle., September 05, 1889
... in point of fact the negroes of the south during the war were just as much Confederates as the most loyal and enthusiastic whites, and re-unions among them commemmorative of the part they played in the great drama are equally as fitting and appropriate, if they choose to do so, as among the whites.

The Lancaster ledger., February 20, 1904
There died in this city last week a very worthy old colored man - one whose faithfulness had been put fully to the test. We refer to Aleck Gooch... When the civil war commenced and young Henry Gooch volunteered for service in the Confederacy Aleck was sent with him as his body servant.... Aleck was known to the entire brigade (Bratton's), and Mr. E. B. Mobley, who was a member, says that in ministering to the sick and wounded Aleck did as much for the Confederacy as any man in the ranks.... Aleck was a good forager and there was never an opportunity for him to confer a kindness upon any soldier, but he did so with alacrity. He was faithful and true under all conditions and glorified in the cause of the South.

The Roswell daily record. (Roswell, N.M.) 1903-current, December 18, 1907
Negro Buried in Confederate Uniform - Ben Shropshire, a negro, was buried here today wearing a Confederate uniform. He served with the Fifth Texas cavalry during the war and was once wounded. He was probably the only negro in Louisiana entitled to a pension from the state. However, he did not draw a pension, but was supported by the Confederate Veterans.

The Washington herald., January 05, 1908
Robert Shropshire, the "old Confederate negro", so well known about the city, who has attended a number of the Confederate reunions, and always wore the gray uniform, is no more.... according to his request, he will be buried in his uniform of Confederate gray, with the conquered banner wound around him... Shropshire was treated with genuine regard by a large number of people, who knew that he was a real Confederate soldier, and was wounded while in the service of the South... some of the Confederate organizations appropriated money monthly for him...

The Chickasha daily express. (Chickasha, Indian Territory [Okla.]) August 24, 1909
Americus [Patterson] is 66 years old, he says, but he doesn't show the effects of age. He has letters from men of distinction in U. C. V. circles testifying to his honorable army service and his good character as a man.

Confederate Veteran Magazine, vol. XVII, 1909, p. 496
Amos Rucker, the Negro Veteran.... In all those long, hard years the 33d Georgia Regiment bore its part in the bloody struggle, and there was no braver member than Sandy Rucker, and shoulder to shoulder with him fought Amos, as though he too was an enlisted man. He took part in every engagement, and, gun or bayonet in hand, stood ready to "close up" whenever there was a vacancy in the line... he joined the Camp of W. H. T. Walker, and there was no more loved nor respected member... at his death in Atlanta in August, 1909 there was universal sorrow... Camp Walker defrayed all burial expenses... the funeral services were conducted by Gen. Clement A. Evans, Commander in Chief of the Veterans... very tenderly they carried the old veteran to his grave, clothed in his uniform of gray and wrapped in a Confederate flag...

Morning appeal. (Carson City, Nev.) 1877-1906, October 20, 1905
Time and again he gave evidences of his bravery and his loyalty to the south... when a camp of Confederate veterans was organized in Atlanta, Rucker was elected to membership and always the camp raised a fund with which to pay his expenses to the annual reunion... his funeral was under the auspices of the camp to which he belonged; his body was borne to the grave by a former governor of Georgia, a former general in the Confederate army, a former governor of Georgia, a judge and a physician who ranks among the foremost of his profession in Atlanta. At the grave another confederate general delivered an eulogy. All this for a negro in the South? Yes.

Richmond times-dispatch., March 18, 1922
Veterans Pay Honor to Negro Confederate - "Alf" Whiting, of Romney, W. Va., one of the few negroes who served in the Confederate army during the Civil War, and whose death occurred a few days ago, was buried at Romney... Confederate veterans acted as honorary pallbearers... Whiting, who was born a slave near Winchester, enlisted in the army in 1861, serving in Company K, Thirteenth Virginia Infantry with Isaac T Brady... captured by Federal troops, and jailed at Cumberland Md... "Alf" was offered his freedom, but refused to take the oath of allegiance or to remain with the Federals... Whiting attended every Confederate reunion within reach, as well as funerals of veterans, and he selected his own pallbearers from among them.

headlines from other accounts about Whiting:
Negro is Honored by Confederates
Southern Vets pay tribute to Deceased Negro
Some pretty good finds Anderson.

Maybe it's just me but, seems a little disingenuous to ignore examples like this. Certainly in the brief time I've been here (3 yrs), there have been numerous very interesting pieces of evidence brought forward to prove, without a doubt, there were some Black men who not only wore grey, but fought, were proud of it, & were recognized for their service by, the only Confederate authorities left post war (the former Confederate states).

You, & others, have posted numerous articles to back up the claim that, in addition to the former Confederate states, peers, neighbors, & or brothers in arms, not only recognized these men but, respected them, & their service. Yet.... plenty of folks refuse to acknowledge, these men. Instead, any & every discussion turns into a modern SJW discussion.

I hate to be cynical but, no evidence will ever be good enough for some folks. Proof in my mind anyways, it's not just about accurate, truthful history. Keep shocking folks with the truth man. The truth doesn't care about anyone's feelings. Neither does history.
 

SouthernFriedOtaku

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Perhaps it is time to bring up another point from the original blog post that seems to be lost in this discussion, and that is Black Confederate Denial itself.

To quote from the blog post:
"Black Confederate Denial can be best defined as an obscene form of historical negationism and that promotes the dehumanization of the Black Confederate Veteran. It is an attempt to negate the established facts of the service of Southern men of color.
Black Confederate denial and distortion are forms of racial bigotry at their core. They are generally motivated by personal hatred of the memory and identities of African-Americans -- both living and dead -- that reject the established narrative that black Americans were only loyal to the Union.
These acts largely serve to undermine the understanding of the complexities of American history."


Later on the writer strongly argues that the reasons some civil war historians reject the service of these black Southern loyalists is an extension of the historical American white-washing of history for political and social reasons. He sites many examples of how black American history (and indeed the history of people of color in general) has been, until very recently (the last half century, or so) overlooked and ignored.
In the case of Black Confederates, the blogger argues that the service of these men is being downplayed, or completely disregarded to serve modern political correctness and Left-leaning "social justice" promotion of the historical narrative.
I have looked at several blogs by prominent historians who promote this so-called narrative and the historians in question make no bones about their own personal Left-leaning political views.

The question is does the writer have a legitimate point, and if so, what does that say in terms of how we view civil war history? I think that is really the meat of this entire argument. For my part, from reading the back and forth on this page, I just see that this issue proves that the war and how we remember it and the people who fought it is very complex. We're long past the point of simple "good guys wear white hats and bad guys wear black ones" view of historical memory.
 

Tin cup

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Perhaps it is time to bring up another point from the original blog post that seems to be lost in this discussion, and that is Black Confederate Denial itself.

To quote from the blog post:
"Black Confederate Denial can be best defined as an obscene form of historical negationism and that promotes the dehumanization of the Black Confederate Veteran. It is an attempt to negate the established facts of the service of Southern men of color.
Black Confederate denial and distortion are forms of racial bigotry at their core. They are generally motivated by personal hatred of the memory and identities of African-Americans -- both living and dead -- that reject the established narrative that black Americans were only loyal to the Union.
These acts largely serve to undermine the understanding of the complexities of American history."


Later on the writer strongly argues that the reasons some civil war historians reject the service of these black Southern loyalists is an extension of the historical American white-washing of history for political and social reasons. He sites many examples of how black American history (and indeed the history of people of color in general) has been, until very recently (the last half century, or so) overlooked and ignored.
In the case of Black Confederates, the blogger argues that the service of these men is being downplayed, or completely disregarded to serve modern political correctness and Left-leaning "social justice" promotion of the historical narrative.
I have looked at several blogs by prominent historians who promote this so-called narrative and the historians in question make no bones about their own personal Left-leaning political views.

The question is does the writer have a legitimate point, and if so, what does that say in terms of how we view civil war history? I think that is really the meat of this entire argument. For my part, from reading the back and forth on this page, I just see that this issue proves that the war and how we remember it and the people who fought it is very complex. We're long past the point of simple "good guys wear white hats and bad guys wear black ones" view of historical memory.
Again, the "Black Confederate" view that folk want to continually foist on everyone as an accepted legitimate historical term, is going to be a continual problem! Say "Black Confederate" enough times, and it becomes a propagandic term that folk are somehow just automatically supposed to believe in, without question.

I question it, and I don't rely on what newspaper articles, or bloggers say, but go to what the Confederate Government had to say about it, they were the REAL authority on the matter.

Kevin Dally
 
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