Doles advances on Krzyzanowski

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rpkennedy

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From these lists, contrary to popular opinion, it would seem that Poles were smart enough to stay away from conscriptions, or at least the fighting.
Just as an aside, the 157th New York was raised in Cortland and Madison Counties. In the 1860s, there wouldn't have been many Poles in that area of New York (south and east of Syracuse).

Ryan
 

Norm53

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Just as an aside, the 157th New York was raised in Cortland and Madison Counties. In the 1860s, there wouldn't have been many Poles in that area of New York (south and east of Syracuse).

Ryan
True; small numbers scattered throughout the US. About 5000 served in the North and about 1000 served in the South during the ACW. First wave in late 19th century when there was a great need for unskilled laborers in US, second after WWII, third after independence from USSR in 1989.
 

Tom Elmore

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Oh, wow. You show the position of the 157th NY to be way more south (by 500 yards?) than the maps of others such as Gottfried and Laino.
For a long time I also thought the 157th NY pitched into Doles' further north, as their monument and advance marker on the Carlisle road indicate. However, it was impossible for me to mesh that scenario with accounts from Krzy. brigade. Pressure upon the latter's left flank (which can only have come from Doles) was described by Col. Willis of 119 NY and Maj. Ledig of 75 PA in their official reports,and also by Capt. Winkler of 26 WISC and Theodore Dodge of 119 NY. Dodge describes the Confederate line (Doles) advancing to within 80 yards, while the Federals on his right were in full retreat (from Gordon's attack). Krzy.' line was already being pushed back when Dodge was wounded and the Confederate battle line passed over him.

Everything points to Doles being fully preoccupied with the 157 NY after attacking and pressing back Krzy.'s regiments. I can't see how it could be before, given the extant accounts, unless you give Gordon nearly all the credit for forcing Krzy. to retreat.

So that tells me the 157th could not have attacked as far north as their monument and advance marker state. Doles writes of being in pursuit of Krzy. when a strong force (157 NY) approached his right and rear. The other major piece of this puzzle involves the 21 GA. The latter regiment "fell down behind a fence" (per Cpl. Sidney Richardson of 21 GA) as the 157 NY moved into their front. Therefore I placed 21 GA behind the likeliest fence on my 3:30 p.m. map. This placement also appears to be fully corroborated by C. D. Grace of 4 GA, who mentions the 157 NY approaching in the low ground formed by a creek, as explained in:

 
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infomanpa

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For a long time I also thought the 157th NY pitched into Doles' further north, as their monument and advance marker on the Carlisle road indicate. However, it was impossible for me to mesh that scenario with accounts from Krzy. brigade. Pressure upon the latter's left flank (which can only have come from Doles) was described by Col. Willis of 119 NY and Maj. Ledig of 75 PA in their official reports,and also by Capt. Winkler of 26 WISC and Theodore Dodge of 119 NY. Dodge describes the Confederate line (Doles) advancing to within 80 yards, while the Federals on his right were in full retreat (from Gordon's attack). Krzy.' line was already being pushed back when Dodge was wounded and the Confederate battle line passed over him.

Everything points to Doles being fully preoccupied with the 157 NY after attacking and pressing back Krzy.'s regiments. I can't see how it could be before, given the extant accounts, unless you give Gordon nearly all the credit for forcing Krzy. to retreat.

So that tells me the 157th could not have attacked as far north as their monument and advance marker state. Doles writes of being in pursuit of Krzy. when a strong force (157 NY) approached his right and rear. The other major piece of this puzzle involves the 21 GA. The latter regiment "fell down behind a fence" (per Cpl. Sidney Richardson of 21 GA) as the 157 NY moved into their front. Therefore I placed 21 GA behind the likeliest fence on my 3:30 p.m. map. This placement also appears to be fully corroborated by C. D. Grace of 4 GA, who mentions the 157 NY approaching in the low ground formed by a creek, as explained in:

I never even noticed the advance marker of the 157th! Thanks for pointing that out. It goes back to the question of how reliable are the veterans who return, sometimes decades later to place the monuments, markers, etc. I'm sure that the land often looks different, (fields cleared, trees gone or new ones in place, etc.) It would not be surprising that eye-witnesses to the battle would not be sure where they themselves were located in 1863. I think of my own experiences when I return to a place that I haven't been to in years. I cannot always remember for sure exactly where I stood.
 

infomanpa

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The other major piece of this puzzle involves the 21 GA. The latter regiment "fell down behind a fence" (per Cpl. Sidney Richardson of 21 GA) as the 157 NY moved into their front. Therefore I placed 21 GA behind the likeliest fence on my 3:30 p.m. map. This placement also appears to be fully corroborated by C. D. Grace of 4 GA, who mentions the 157 NY approaching in the low ground formed by a creek, as explained in:
Looks like the "fence" area where you believe the 157th made its stand is now an athletic field of Gettysburg College. At least it's preserved enough to walk through it.
Capture.JPG
 
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Lubliner

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Looking back and reviewing the Killed and Mortally Wounded List, I noticed the name John P. Haupt. As usual when a famous man such as Herman Haupt so closely resembles the search, it overshadows all my results. I was wondering of the relation, if there is one between the two?
The interesting side-note of discovery was the news on Herman, being married in Gettysburg in 1838 to Ann Keller, and teaching 7 years at Pennsylvania College (1840-47). He also made an important impact on the Gettysburg Campaign by supplying the Army, and by evacuating the wounded to hospitals.
I never discovered if John P. was a relative. I do know that later that year in 1863, Haupt's demands for receiving his Brigadier General's Commission was not met, and as I understood it, he resigned.
A smaller world.
Lubliner.
 

rpkennedy

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Looking back and reviewing the Killed and Mortally Wounded List, I noticed the name John P. Haupt. As usual when a famous man such as Herman Haupt so closely resembles the search, it overshadows all my results. I was wondering of the relation, if there is one between the two?
The interesting side-note of discovery was the news on Herman, being married in Gettysburg in 1838 to Ann Keller, and teaching 7 years at Pennsylvania College (1840-47). He also made an important impact on the Gettysburg Campaign by supplying the Army, and by evacuating the wounded to hospitals.
I never discovered if John P. was a relative. I do know that later that year in 1863, Haupt's demands for receiving his Brigadier General's Commission was not met, and as I understood it, he resigned.
A smaller world.
Lubliner.
John P. Haupt (also written in the records as Houpt) was 21 when he enlisted in Cortland, NY in September 1862. Honestly, I have no idea if they were related in any way but I also don't know how common "Haupt" was in the German community.

Ryan
 

James N.

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… I never discovered if John P. was a relative. I do know that later that year in 1863, Haupt's demands for receiving his Brigadier General's Commission was not met, and as I understood it, he resigned.
A smaller world.
Lubliner.
Herman Haupt appears in Ezra Warner's Generals in Blue as a brigadier, and he's definitely wearing the uniform of one in this photo:
1200px-Herman_Haupt.jpg
 
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James N.

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Officially, he was promoted to brigadier general but he refused the appointment. I suppose that he was technically a general but it's a bit of a fuzzy issue.

Ryan
I wonder why if he refused the appointment he chose to be photographed in the uniform and why he's rated as one by Warner?
 

rpkennedy

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I wonder why if he refused the appointment he chose to be photographed in the uniform and why he's rated as one by Warner?
The reason that he refused the appointment was because he wanted to keep on as a civilian railroadman. Eventually the promotion was withdrawn and when it was offered again in September 1863, he said that he would accept under certain conditions and when the government refused, he was done.

Ryan
 
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Lubliner

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I wonder why if he refused the appointment he chose to be photographed in the uniform and why he's rated as one by Warner?
So many Major Generals had their immediate commandeering of the trains for their own purposes that he could not fulfill the object he himself attended to. He therefore protested, and resigned when he could not block orders from the Commanding Generals in the field, is how I understood it.
Thanks,
Lubliner.
 
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