Restricted Do Rebels deserve new monuments?

TerryB

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Location
Nashville TN
In my America, we don't tell people not to honor their ancestors because we disapprove of of what they did or stood for. To use a Revolutionary analogy, I probably wouldn't be shouting "Hey, ya'll! I just found out one of my ancestors was a Tory!" But I wouldn't try to cover it up either. I've got records of Civil War ancestors who were accused of walking away from a battle without permission all the way to murdering prisoners. In all cases like that, I get all the facts I can find, then write the story as I understand it so that their accusers don't go down in history as having had the last word. It would be a shame to allow the PC crowd to silence the Southern side or keep us from honoring their sacrifices with monuments, etc.
 

ivanj05

First Sergeant
Joined
Jun 8, 2015
In my America, we don't tell people not to honor their ancestors because we disapprove of of what they did or stood for. To use a Revolutionary analogy, I probably wouldn't be shouting "Hey, ya'll! I just found out one of my ancestors was a Tory!" But I wouldn't try to cover it up either. I've got records of Civil War ancestors who were accused of walking away from a battle without permission all the way to murdering prisoners. In all cases like that, I get all the facts I can find, then write the story as I understand it so that their accusers don't go down in history as having had the last word. It would be a shame to allow the PC crowd to silence the Southern side or keep us from honoring their sacrifices with monuments, etc.

Why exactly are those sacrifices deserving of honor? You complain about the PC crowd, but many of those on the other side seem to want to divorce the Confederacy from its cause in order to justify the mental gymnastics required for honor.
 

TerryB

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Location
Nashville TN
Why exactly are those sacrifices deserving of honor? You complain about the PC crowd, but many of those on the other side seem to want to divorce the Confederacy from its cause in order to justify the mental gymnastics required for honor.
The problem I have with the PC crowd is not that they have opinions. What is wrong with PC-sim is that is is a blatant attempt to silence opposition by silencing speech. Monuments are a form of free speech, ergo deserving of constitutional protections. In our system of government, my opinions don't need to be politically correct nor historically accurate for them to be protected forms of speech. To put it succinctly, I have a right to be wrong.
 

ivanj05

First Sergeant
Joined
Jun 8, 2015
The problem I have with the PC crowd is not that they have opinions. What is wrong with PC-sim is that is is a blatant attempt to silence opposition by silencing speech. Monuments are a form of free speech, ergo deserving of constitutional protections. In our system of government, my opinions don't need to be politically correct nor historically accurate for them to be protected forms of speech. To put it succinctly, I have a right to be wrong.

You may have that right, but those who disagree are not silencing you by virtue of calling you wrong. The decendents of those who opposed the Confederacy, and the decendents of those who were held in bondage by the Confederacy get a vote too. If those people say, "No, we have no business honoring and memorializing the Confederacy in this day and age.", it might mean more than just the "PC Police" defense.
 

TinCan

Captain
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Location
Transplanted Texan
I'm for anything that inhances our understanding of our past. A monument, display, exhibit, etc ., that does that is great for me. I'll leave it up to the individual to make up their own mind if they want to honor or remember something that is put up. I tend to take a dim view of any group or individual who tries to tell me what is appropriate for me to honor or remember.
 

Reb

Sergeant Major
Joined
Jul 21, 2015
Location
South Central Arizona
Why exactly are those sacrifices deserving of honor? You complain about the PC crowd, but many of those on the other side seem to want to divorce the Confederacy from its cause in order to justify the mental gymnastics required for honor.

The same mental gymnastics one has to get by about a whole lot of things that have happened under "old glory".
 

TerryB

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Location
Nashville TN
You may have that right, but those who disagree are not silencing you by virtue of calling you wrong. The decendents of those who opposed the Confederacy, and the decendents of those who were held in bondage by the Confederacy get a vote too. If those people say, "No, we have no business honoring and memorializing the Confederacy in this day and age.", it might mean more than just the "PC Police" defense.
We all have free speech. Unlike in Animal House, where some animals were more equal than others, no speech is more equal than some other speech. Monuments are a form of free speech last time I looked.

If it were about being popular speech, just continue with my 1776 analogy. So instead of reading Common Sense to the troops, or the Declaration, Washington says, "You know those Brits have a point. We really are a bunch of da***ed traitorous rebels, so I guess we ought to cease and desist and disperse. It's just not popular being a rebel and having the Brits call us names all the time."
 

ivanj05

First Sergeant
Joined
Jun 8, 2015
We all have free speech. Unlike in Animal House, where some animals were more equal than others, no speech is more equal than some other speech. Monuments are a form of free speech last time I looked.

If it were about being popular speech, just continue with my 1776 analogy. So instead of reading Common Sense to the troops, or the Declaration, Washington says, "You know those Brits have a point. We really are a bunch of da***ed traitorous rebels, so I guess we ought to cease and desist and disperse. It's just not popular being a rebel and having the Brits call us names all the time."

Monuments on public land are not simple acts of free speech.
 

Allie

Captain
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
In my America, we don't tell people not to honor their ancestors because we disapprove of of what they did or stood for. To use a Revolutionary analogy, I probably wouldn't be shouting "Hey, ya'll! I just found out one of my ancestors was a Tory!" But I wouldn't try to cover it up either. I've got records of Civil War ancestors who were accused of walking away from a battle without permission all the way to murdering prisoners. In all cases like that, I get all the facts I can find, then write the story as I understand it so that their accusers don't go down in history as having had the last word. It would be a shame to allow the PC crowd to silence the Southern side or keep us from honoring their sacrifices with monuments, etc.
I've got a handful of Tory ancestors, including one who was murdered for being a Tory. It doesn't particularly concern me, but then I have so many Revolutionary war ancestors that I barely even blink when I find a new one these days. I guess if you had only one you might be upset to learn he was a Tory.

What if you get all the facts you can find, and the accusers are right, what do you do then? Some people really are descended from just terrible people. Are they supposed to lie about it, or be ashamed, or what? Or can we, at this late date, finally laugh and say, "Oh, well."

Maybe I would feel differently about this if I lived in Britain, but it seems to me that the British have a healthier attitude about this sort of thing. A historical marker about the British Civil War does not imply endorsement of either side or veneration for the dead, it's just commemorating something interesting that happened.
 

TerryB

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Location
Nashville TN
I've got a handful of Tory ancestors, including one who was murdered for being a Tory. It doesn't particularly concern me, but then I have so many Revolutionary war ancestors that I barely even blink when I find a new one these days. I guess if you had only one you might be upset to learn he was a Tory.

What if you get all the facts you can find, and the accusers are right, what do you do then? Some people really are descended from just terrible people. Are they supposed to lie about it, or be ashamed, or what? Or can we, at this late date, finally laugh and say, "Oh, well."

Maybe I would feel differently about this if I lived in Britain, but it seems to me that the British have a healthier attitude about this sort of thing. A historical marker about the British Civil War does not imply endorsement of either side or veneration for the dead, it's just commemorating something interesting that happened.
I'll deal with the one I couldn't disprove. Lt. Tom Pointer, my avatar's 1st cousin, stood court martial for walking away from the Battle of Murfreesboro. He was charged on 2 counts and found guilty of the first, but not guilty of refusing to go back up the line. All I have are the abstracts, not full testimony. He was sentenced to 30 days suspension of pay and rank and to be reprimanded at parade formation. The records have the remark, "The sentence is light due to palliating circumstances." That's all I know, but rather than avoid it, I wrote it in his bio so that all the facts would be in one place. Others will have to decide on how guilty he was and was he a coward. His CO was killed at Franklin and he took over the company, was later captured and spent the last six months of the war at Fort Delaware. So he wasn't a coward in my book, but history gets the last word, not me.
 
Top