Dirty Dan Sickles, I Am The Man!

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Drew

Major
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
The so-called Ostend Manifesto, written in 1854 (IIRC), detailed U.S. plans to annex Cuba and other lands, for the expansion of slavery, naturally. The Ostend Manifesto caused an international uproar at that time.

Of course, many waived and continue to wave the bloody shirt at the South over this plot.

Oddly, Dirty Dan Sickles and his boss at that time, U.S. Ambassador to Britain, James Buchanan, actually wrote the thing, not anyone from the South.

Let's never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 

Bee

Captain
Asst. Regtl. Quartermaster Gettysburg 2017
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
The so-called Ostend Manifesto, written in 1854 (IIRC), detailed U.S. plans to annex Cuba and other lands, for the expansion of slavery, naturally. The Ostend Manifesto caused an international uproar at that time.
Yup.

Of course, many waived and continue to wave the bloody shirt at the South over this plot
Their proposals, couched in intemperate language, were rejected, and when contents of the dispatch leaked out, the Republican press branded it as a “manifesto” appealing to Southern opinion. https://www.britannica.com/event/Ostend-Manifesto

Oddly, Dirty Dan Sickles and his boss at that time, U.S. Ambassador to Britain, James Buchanan, actually wrote the thing, not anyone from the South.
Yup

Let's never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Who are you arguing with?
 
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Location
Hannover, Germany
Who are you arguing with?
I think @Drew is not arguing with anybody, he is just making clear that in the pre-war US slavery was not an issue in the South alone. That refers to another of @War Horse 's threads, where you could get the impression that Southern people were a horde of slave owners, eagerly fighting for the preservation of slavery, while in the North morally superior people fought for abolition as the principle objective of the war.
I think Drew wanted to state once more that not all Northerners were saints and not all Southerners were evil.
"Plain and simple".
:smile:
 
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DBF

First Sergeant
Forum Host
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
I can think of at least hundreds :smile:

And even among Union Civil War generals, the general public opinion during the Civil War had others (Butler, McClellan, Banks, Burnside, Killpatrick, Rosecrans etc.) much more controversial than him. Add some confederate figures, Andrew Johnson, John Wilkes Booth, and probably more, and there were at least a dozen more controversial contemporary figures.

The more you add to American History and meet people like Adolph Hitler, Osama bin Laden, etc, the more and more Dan Sickles becomes a footnote in History, despite his intention, and that is enough punishment :wink:

I would guess if you asked a random set of 1000 Americans now about who were the 10 most despicable people in American History, Sickles' name will not come up. And I bet 999 of them would not even know who Dan Sickles was.

The History of America is very long :smile:
And that is the exclamation point to the life of Dan Sickles. The man that lived until 1914 and spent 50 years trying to rehabilitate his life working every day to change the narrative - manages not to be a Lincoln, Grant or Lee - but to the people (excluding serious students of the Civil War) the man who tried to establish an “unforgettable” legacy - became simply “forgettable”.
 

Bee

Captain
Asst. Regtl. Quartermaster Gettysburg 2017
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
I think @Drew is not arguing with anybody, he is just making clear that in the pre-war US slavery was not an issue in the South alone. That refers to another of @War Horse 's threads, where you could get the impression that Southern people were a horde of slave owners, eagerly fighting for the preservation of slavery, while in the North morally superior people fought for abolition as the principle objective of the war.
I think Drew wanted to state once more that not all Northerners were saints and not all Southerners were evil.
"Plain and simple".
:smile:
Definitely no saints, here, after all: this Is a Dirty Dan thread -- all bets off regarding right and wrong, good and evil :wink:

And that is the exclamation point to the life of Dan Sickles. The man that lived until 1914 and spent 50 years trying to rehabilitate his life working every day to change the narrative - manages not to be a Lincoln, Grant or Lee - but to the people (excluding serious students of the Civil War) the man who tried to establish an “unforgettable” legacy - became simply “forgettable”.
Yesterday, when I was reading through the last debacle of Sickles' life -- being expelled from the monument commission -- I actually felt a sadness. He died penniless, alienated, and disgraced....And all of it was his own doing, or I should say, undoing.
 
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DBF

First Sergeant
Forum Host
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Definitely no saints, here, after all: this Is a Dirty Dan thread -- all bets off regarding right and wrong, good and evil :wink:



Yesterday, when I was reading through the last debacle of Sickles' life -- being expelled from the monument commission -- I actually felt a sadness. He died penniless, alienated, and disgraced....And all of it was his own doing, or I should say, undoing.
Do you think his daughter felt the same way at the time of her death? or for that matter his wife? It’s a sad tale when we think of what “could have been” if “not for his actions”. But he sure left us with a “debate” worthy legacy. In Hessler’s book I have to smile when I read that: “even his obituary contributed to the confusion over his age by noting that he ‘lived to be almost 91’, he was more likely six months short of his ninety-fifth birthday. Even his age can be debated.” (Page 382). He certainly can stir mixed emotions, at least in me, when studying his entire life.
 

Bee

Captain
Asst. Regtl. Quartermaster Gettysburg 2017
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Do you think his daughter felt the same way at the time of her death? or for that matter his wife? It’s a sad tale when we think of what “could have been” if “not for his actions”. But he sure left us with a “debate” worthy legacy. In Hessler’s book I have to smile when I read that: “even his obituary contributed to the confusion over his age by noting that he ‘lived to be almost 91’, he was more likely six months short of his ninety-fifth birthday. Even his age can be debated.” (Page 382). He certainly can stir mixed emotions, at least in me, when studying his entire life.
I should clarify my sadness: Nothing ever changes: Dirty Dan was a scoundrel right to the end. He had people scrambling to save his arse: Caroline was pawning her jewelry whilst tears running down her face, yet he extending nothing of himself.
 
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