Did the Secessionists Want War?

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GwilymT

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it was not southern democrats that introduced the amendment..it was the north trying to show protection of slavery...if "protection of slavery" was the only issue that forced slavestates out..they wouldnt have left.
I think timing is important here. By the time the Corwin Amendment was proposed, the ill fated secession plan of many of the slave states was already a fact. It was a last ditch effort of northerners who didn’t want war to stave off the impending disaster by capitulating to the Slave Power yet again in the name of peace. They were too late and didn’t understand that the Slave Power wanted war.
 

Patrick Sulley

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They were too late and didn’t understand that the Slave Power wanted war.
can you provide any source that promotes the idea that slave power wanted war? on the contrary they hoped to secede peacefully but did prepare for war. Wanting to secede is not the same as wanting war. They sent delegations north to seek a peaceful resolution, Lincoln refused to see them...he was looking for war.

GwilymT said:
capitulating to the Slave Power yet again in the name of peace.
they capitulated to "slave power" not over slavery but rather over financing the federal government...the north wouldnt keep capitulating to the South to preserve slavery.
 
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CWH1234

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Good Topic, Honestly, I believe it basically about the abolish of slavery, then since the farmers will have difficulty of keeping the fields of goods up without slaves, I believed that one reason the southerners wanted to have their own country.
 
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trice

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The southern states did not really want war. In a speech in 1861, Jefferson Davis said that the CSA just wanted to be left alone.
When he resigned from the Senate and went home to Mississippi, Jefferson Davis was made the commander of the Army of Mississippi. He shocked Governor John J. Pettus by telling him that they must immediately prepare for a long, hard war. This is in January of 1861.

From The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government by Jefferson Davis, 1881: "For my own part, while believing that secession was a right, and properly a peaceful remedy, I had never believed that it would be permitted to be peaceably exercised."
 

trice

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Anyone interested in the historical concept of Southern expansion/Manifest destiny and the visions of the rise of an independent South might want to look at these books:

  • What Hath God Wrought by Daniel Walker Howe
  • The Southern Dreams of a Confederate Empire by Robert May
  • Knights of the Golden Circle: Secret Empire, Southern Secession, Civil War by David Keehn
  • Blood and Treasure: Confederate Empire in the Southwest by Donald Frazier
 
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Potomac Pride

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When he resigned from the Senate and went home to Mississippi, Jefferson Davis was made the commander of the Army of Mississippi. He shocked Governor John J. Pettus by telling him that they must immediately prepare for a long, hard war. This is in January of 1861.

From The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government by Jefferson Davis, 1881: "For my own part, while believing that secession was a right, and properly a peaceful remedy, I had never believed that it would be permitted to be peaceably exercised."
His comments were made in regards to the possibility that the Union would not allow the southern states to secede peacefully. The CSA did not really want a war. They just wanted to declare their independence and be left alone.
 

trice

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His comments were made in regards to the possibility that the Union would not allow the southern states to secede peacefully. The CSA did not really want a war. They just wanted to declare their independence and be left alone.
In early 1861, while Jefferson Davis was President of the Confederacy in Montgomery, Mexico sent an envoy up to see about establishing relations. Jefferson Davis refused to meet with this envoy, despite the need of the new Confederate States to get diplomatic recognition and become an established nation. Why? He felt it would be embarrassing to meet with Mexico when he might be leading an invasion of Mexico within the next year or two.

The Confederacy also spent a good part of the war secretly (or not so secretly) trying to foment rebellion within Mexico in order to separate the northern Mexican states from the government and make them part of the Confederacy.

This is not the behavior of a Confederacy that wants to be "left alone".
 

trice

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Here is Jefferson Davis on his way to Montgomery to accept the Presidency of the Confederate States:
1572041489726.png
That is from A Government of Our Own by William C. Davis​
This is February 16, 1861. Lincoln has not even arrived in Washington yet, let alone been inaugurated into office -- and Jefferson Davis is going on the record about his belief that the new Confederacy he will soon be running will be annexing part of Mexico, the West Indies and Cuba. Please reconcile this with the belief that the Confederacy just wanted to be "left alone".​
 
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Potomac Pride

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Here is Jefferson Davis on his way to Montgomery to accept the Presidency of the Confederate States:
That is from A Government of Our Own by William C. Davis​
This is February 16, 1861. Lincoln has not even arrived in Washington yet, let alone been inaugurated into office -- and Jefferson Davis is going on the record about his belief that the new Confederacy he will soon be running will be annexing part of Mexico, the West Indies and Cuba. Please reconcile this with the belief that the Confederacy just wanted to be "left alone".​
Thanks for your comments. I noticed in the article where it stated that Davis wanted peace with the North but would accept war if forced to. This really reflects the comments that he made in his inaugural speech in Feb. 1861 when he stated “We have entered upon the career of independence, and it must be inflexibly pursued. ….If a just perception of mutual interest shall permit us peaceably to pursue our separate political career, my most earnest desire will have been fulfilled. But, if this be denied to us, and the integrity of our territory and jurisdiction be assailed, it will but remain for us, with firm resolve, to appeal to arms and invoke the blessings of Providence on a just cause.”

In his speech, he remarks that the southern states wanted independence and it was his hope that separation would be achieved peacefully. However, if this was not allowed then a call to arms would result. He did not really want war unless there was no other alternative.
 

John Hartwell

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The secessionists wanted secession, and were willing to risk war to get it. They thought it a small risk because, in their self-centered arrogance, they had convinced themselves that the people of the free states lacked the will to fight and/or the courage and ability to defeat them. They were wrong.
 
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trice

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Thanks for your comments. I noticed in the article where it stated that Davis wanted peace with the North but would accept war if forced to. This really reflects the comments that he made in his inaugural speech in Feb. 1861 when he stated “We have entered upon the career of independence, and it must be inflexibly pursued. ….If a just perception of mutual interest shall permit us peaceably to pursue our separate political career, my most earnest desire will have been fulfilled. But, if this be denied to us, and the integrity of our territory and jurisdiction be assailed, it will but remain for us, with firm resolve, to appeal to arms and invoke the blessings of Providence on a just cause.”

In his speech, he remarks that the southern states wanted independence and it was his hope that separation would be achieved peacefully. However, if this was not allowed then a call to arms would result. He did not really want war unless there was no other alternative.
Yet, while he was making these statements, the seceding states, the Confederacy, and Jefferson Davis were actually taking actions that included stealing property in the amount of millions of dollars (buildings, ships, boats, currency, gold and silver bullion, etc.) and using armed force against the United States of America. These are not the actions of a people who just want to be "left alone". They would be universally regarded as acts of war if committed between nations. Please reconcile this.
 
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Southern Fire Eaters secessionists vowed loudly and aggressively that the Northerner would highly likely not fight against an armed slaveholder insurrection in 1861. They claimed one Confederate soldier was equal to three Northerner soldiers or something to that effect. They claimed if a War commenced it was not possible to last but about six months. Therefore, those glory seekers must rush to enrollment as they may miss the show, for manliness and fame, plus future chance to be a rich slaveholder!
 

Patrick Sulley

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prepare for a long, hard war.
this is what i said...they wanted peace...but was preparing for war in post #2

These are not the actions of a people who just want to be "left alone".
"peace through strength"

This is not the behavior of a Confederacy that wants to be "left alone".
being left alone is not the same as wanting to influence others. You can "not" want someone in your house...while breaking into someone elses.
 

Patrick Sulley

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then since the farmers will have difficulty of keeping the fields of goods up without slaves
After the civil war and without slavery, the cotton fields kept pumping out cotton. The USA continued to export more cotton than any other country until almost 1930ish. Slavery was not an absolute need to accomplish the feat of maintaining fields
 
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Patrick Sulley

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They thought it a small risk because,
Yes sir, they indeed thought so and thats the key in my opinion. It's their thinking (did they want war?) that there would be no war because of their view of Northern "weakness". the fact that they were factually incorrect does not take away from what they "wanted" or didnt want.
 

Ethan S.

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1. the South just wanted to leave, without war.

2. Things escalated when Lincoln called up 75,000 volunteers to "put down the rebellion".

3. According to the U.S. constitution, the 10th amendment states:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

I believe southerners thought that it was their constitutional right to do what they wanted to, in this case, leave.


4. What the heck were y'all thinking when you fired on Fort Sumter?? Now ya done it.
 

John Hartwell

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1. the South just wanted to leave, without war.

2. Things escalated when Lincoln called up 75,000 volunteers to "put down the rebellion".

3. According to the U.S. constitution, the 10th amendment states:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

I believe southerners thought that it was their constitutional right to do what they wanted to, in this case, leave.


4. What the heck were y'all thinking when you fired on Fort Sumter?? Now ya done it.
I think that's reasonably accurate, but, I'd put it differently:

1. the South just wanted to leave, without war, believing they had constitutional right to do so based on, a disputed reading of the 10th Amendment.

2. the South organized an army and fired on St. Sumter, thinking that "isn't really starting a war.".

3. Lincoln called up 75,000 volunteers to put down de facto rebellion.

and, yes: 4. "What the heck were y'all thinking?? Now ya done it."

But, their biggest mistake by far was following through on No. 1 without even trying to negotiate a peaceful exit from the Union.
 
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