Discussion Did soldiers cover muzzles of loaded muskets to keep their charges dry?

All the hunters up here in Alaska, as standard practice, put a piece of electrical tape or duct tape over the muzzle to keep debris out. It blows away easily and doesn't affect the accuracy to any meaningful degree. I would think a rather loose fitting cover would likewise blow off without blowing up the barrel.

Most of the Federal War Department contracts for Austrian weapons required that the contractor provide tompions among the required accessories. From that, I would infer that the Ordnance Office intended that they be used in the field.

Captain A. B. Dyer at Springfield Armory suspected that most of the weapons that were reported as having burst at the muzzle had failed because the soldiers had fired them with their tompions in place, which was clearly a soldier training failure. In April 1862 he reported that to test this theory he had loaded eight Springfield rifle musket barrels which were ready for proof with standard service cartridges and inserted tight fitting tompions into the barrels. Five of the eight barrels burst at the muzzle when they were fired. To check his findings, he loaded two barrels with 120 grains of gunpowder and one bullet, and two barrels with 192 grains of gunpowder and a bullet. One of the barrels loaded with 120 grains of powder failed, while the other three did not.

Regards,
Don Dixon
a light cover or a loose cover, no problem. But a proper wooden tampion is a tight fitting solid plug of about two inches in length, and that's a different thing all together.
I do have a nice flintlock in original flint, never converted because the barrel is split open a crack between the lower - middle and the middle - top bands - no more than a quarter inch, but a good five inches long. The split has been there for a while, but when it happened or how, i sure don't know.
 
wonder why they don't have a proper tompion?

But admittedly I never used one and don't remember ever seeing one in use in Denmark.
(Either we where going to do live firing so not relevant to put it on. Doing blank firing so we where using a blankfire "thing" that help the gun work better for that. Or sometimes we where doing engineering work with no blanks in the guns. In that case we arguably should be using the "tompion" as seen on the photo.. but we did not. And I never been told to do so)
View attachment 389472
If I understand your question, the reason modern military firearms don't need a tompion us that the barrel is chromed for accuracy and longer wear, and cased ammunition will fire just fine when wet. You need the blank firing adapter to create enough backblast to recock the weapon when firing blanks.
 
If I understand your question, the reason modern military firearms don't need a tompion us that the barrel is chromed for accuracy and longer wear, and cased ammunition will fire just fine when wet. You need the blank firing adapter to create enough backblast to recock the weapon when firing blanks.
No Iam questioning why US troops don't' have one.
When Danish and British troops do and used them in combat in Afghanistan and Iraq.
(I also had one when I was serving. Just never used it during peacetime training)

Rain is no issue if a bit get into the barrel. But mud and sand can result in a barrel busting.
 
We used muzzle caps in the ‘70’s Through 2001 or so (US Army).
If the link I’m trying to post works.... they looked like this:

66D5B675-AB25-4EB2-B581-59B9DF351E8B.jpeg
 
Don't know if it was actually done back in the day, but I've seen people stuff a little straw or long grass in the muzzle just to keep the rain out during a march. Easy to remove when the time comes.
 
No Iam questioning why US troops don't' have one.
When Danish and British troops do and used them in combat in Afghanistan and Iraq.
(I also had one when I was serving. Just never used it during peacetime training)

Rain is no issue if a bit get into the barrel. But mud and sand can result in a barrel busting.
Oh, I get you now. Per treebee2000 's pic, there is a muzzle cap but I have to admit I never used one under field conditions. Grit in the receiver always seemed to be a more pressing concern. I was in armor and best that I can recall there weren't muzzle caps for any of our small arms. (The big gun got a muzzle cap though.) 😊
 
In the book, "Tullahoma" by Powell and Wittenberg, they cite soldiers putting bayonets on the rifles and sticking them in the ground upside down to keep moisture out of barrels. They had several days of huge storms and rains. Union and Confederates had trouble keeping cartridge boxes dry.
 
Along the same lines, I guess when cannons were attached to their limber with muzzle down, they were relatively 'rain proof'. Almost anything like a rag could cover the fuse hole. However, if in the firing position, I wonder how they were protected? At Gettysburg, on the fourth day, they had much rain. I know Confederates prepared to leave, but did the AOP also limber their cannons?
 
Along the same lines, I guess when cannons were attached to their limber with muzzle down, they were relatively 'rain proof'. Almost anything like a rag could cover the fuse hole. However, if in the firing position, I wonder how they were protected? At Gettysburg, on the fourth day, they had much rain. I know Confederates prepared to leave, but did the AOP also limber their cannons?
The last hostile artillery firing at Gettysburg on July 4 took place in the forenoon, before the heavy rains arrived in the afternoon, although I understand some Union artillery fired a salute at noon on July 4 to mark Independence Day.
 
Not quite on topic, BUT a few years ago I came across a discussion about when marching in step came about. They started by suggesting that we've all seen movies or TV shows or even been at a parade or on a military post and watched soldiers marching. The question was posed did that start with the Greek phalanx, or possibly later with the Roman legion. Sometime during the Middle Ages possibly.
According to the source, none of the above. While they did stand and walk in rank and file, when they moved there was no cadence. The familiar hup, two, three, four did become an absolute necessity when a new weapon became available as the weapon of choice...the musket. Supposedly walking to a cadence kept soldiers from bumping and/or jostling the comrade on either side of himself. I assume that this would have been an absolute necessity assembling or entering the field of battle itself when the musket would have to be loaded. Given the military propensity for doing the same thing , the same way always, marching in step would have become the accepted way of moving gun loaded or not.
 
Muskets were generally kept unloaded, and loaded right before going into action or onto duty. They were unloaded either by firing which is the easy way, or by pulling the ball, which is the hard way. There is a position in the drill manual called ¨secure arms¨ in which the musket is passed barrel-down under the left arm, with the muzzle down and the butt of the rifle behind the soldier´s shoulder. The purpose is obviously to keep the muzzle dry. The lock will also be under your arm, which helps to keep it dry. Percussion arms aren´t as sensitive to rain as flintlocks. I can´t think of ever reading about a soldier actually stating that they put a tompion in the muzzle during a rainstorm, but it might be one of those things that are so common no one mentions it.
Excellent answer. Thank you I hadn’t considered secure arms
 
We used muzzle caps in the ‘70’s Through 2001 or so (US Army).
If the link I’m trying to post works.... they looked like this:

View attachment 389526
We still get issued these on Occasion. Had them in Iraq in 06. Nice thing about them was if you got into contact you could shoot through them with no issues as they do not block the bore, and the first round fired blows it open from the muzzle gasses
 
We still get issued these on Occasion. Had them in Iraq in 06. Nice thing about them was if you got into contact you could shoot through them with no issues as they do not block the bore, and the first round fired blows it open from the muzzle gasses
That is exactly the experience in the Danish army.

When Danish units in Afghanistan started doing offensive operations the army supply system did not bring any large number of them.
(Since they are not used in peacetime here in Denmark, they are very rarely lost. So I guess they didn't think about the issue)

Our guys shot theirs off in their first fight and could not get any replacements. So they asked us at home, to simply send some with the postal service. So I ended op taking a packaged to the (civilian) post officer.
That package was then returned to the army for transport... illogical, but it worked. They quickly got the items they asked for... and some books and spices to improve their food.

Also in typical army read tape, some Items are seen as expendable. It is expected that they get lost. The muzzlecoveres where not a expendable item. So all soldiers where first asked to fill out paperwork for their lost item... at least the company commander simply said "not going to happen"
 
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They were unloaded either by firing which is the easy way, or by pulling the ball, which is the hard way.

Could you elaborate on that second process, how it was done? I've got no experience shooting muzzle-loaders and I've always wondered how guys unloaded their weapons, other than just firing them.
 
Not quite on topic, BUT a few years ago I came across a discussion about when marching in step came about. They started by suggesting that we've all seen movies or TV shows or even been at a parade or on a military post and watched soldiers marching. The question was posed did that start with the Greek phalanx, or possibly later with the Roman legion. Sometime during the Middle Ages possibly.
According to the source, none of the above. While they did stand and walk in rank and file, when they moved there was no cadence. The familiar hup, two, three, four did become an absolute necessity when a new weapon became available as the weapon of choice...the musket. Supposedly walking to a cadence kept soldiers from bumping and/or jostling the comrade on either side of himself. I assume that this would have been an absolute necessity assembling or entering the field of battle itself when the musket would have to be loaded. Given the military propensity for doing the same thing , the same way always, marching in step would have become the accepted way of moving gun loaded or not.
Still in print, from the late William H. McNeil, Keeping together in time: Dance and Drill in Human History

The best armies of the ancient world and on all practiced close order drill, and it was utterly essential during the centuries of linear tactics. Much militia drill in the United States was devoted to, well, drill. The only modern armed forces that does not do close order drill is the IDF, as far as I know...
 
Could you elaborate on that second process, how it was done? I've got no experience shooting muzzle-loaders and I've always wondered how guys unloaded their weapons, other than just firing them.
To unload a muzzle loader the hard way:

1. Put the lock on half-cock. If a flintlock, open the pan and brush, blow out the priming powder. Close the pan. If a caplock, remove the percussion cap.
2. Pull out the ramrod from its channel.
3. At the bottom of the ramrod is a threaded area. Screw on a ball-puller. This is literally a little metal drill-bit.
4. Insert the ramrod down the barrel the reverse of how it is normally done to seat the projectile atop the powder charge, such that the screw is facing down toward the breech.
5. Screw the ball puller into the bullet. This is tricky and may require some noise-making or cursing.
6. Once you think the ball-puller is screwed into the ball good and tight, extract the bullet the way it went in, by pulling it along the length of the barrel, and out through the muzzle.
7. Unscrew the bullet, then the ball-puller, dump out the powder, swab the barrel with a tow worm and a hank of tow or cloth patch, put everything away.

How to "cheat"
1. If going on sentry duty: Don't ram the ball, just bang the butt against a solid surface a time or two to seat the bullet lightly atop the powder.
Or
2. If a smooth-bore musket: Use a charge of buckshot, 9, 12, or even 15 pellets, which are wrapped in paper and choked with string and tied off. Snag the string and paper with the tow worm and pull out to unload, or, if loose shot are used, pull out the crumpled paper or whatever is used for wadding, and pour the shot out of the barrel. That only works for a smooth-bore.
 
What about simply carrying the weapon muzzle downwards when not in use?
That is the "secure arms" drill step:

Consult period drill books. From "shoulder arms" where the butt is cupped in the left hand, the elbow slightly bent, the right hand moves to the wrist of the stock across the body. The freed left hand moves up the stock to the first barrel band and ramrod channel, grasping the weapon. In one movement, the right hand goes back to the side, and the extended left arm swings the musket down at an angle, such that the barrel is pointed at the ground, and the lock of the musket is upside down under the armpit, with the left arm bent and the elbow pointed toward the ground.

During surrenders, arms were often carried over the shoulder with the butt upper-most and the barrel pointed at the ground.
 
Along the same lines, I guess when cannons were attached to their limber with muzzle down, they were relatively 'rain proof'. Almost anything like a rag could cover the fuse hole. However, if in the firing position, I wonder how they were protected? At Gettysburg, on the fourth day, they had much rain. I know Confederates prepared to leave, but did the AOP also limber their cannons?
Tompions and muzzle covers.
 
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