Did Lincoln Abhor Slavery? (poll)

Did Lincoln Abhor Slavery?

  • Yes

    Votes: 39 62.9%
  • No

    Votes: 20 32.3%
  • Don't Know

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Total voters
    62

Burning Billy

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"In 1841 you and I had together a tedious low-water trip, on a Steam Boat from Louisville to St. Louis. You may remember, as I well do, that from Louisville to the mouth of the Ohio there were, on board, ten or a dozen slaves, shackled together with irons. That sight was a continual torment to me; and I see something like it every time I touch the Ohio, or any other slave-border. It is hardly fair for you to assume, that I have no interest in a thing which has, and continually exercises, the power of making me miserable. You ought rather to appreciate how much the great body of the Northern people do crucify their feelings, in order to maintain their loyalty to the constitution and the Union....

....I am not a Know-Nothing. That is certain. How could I be? How can any one who abhors the oppression of negroes, be in favor of degrading classes of white people? Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that ``all men are created equal.'' We now practically read it ``all men are created equal, except negroes.'' When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read ``all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and catholics.'' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty---to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy."

Abraham Lincoln - Letter to Joshua F. Speed, 1855
 

Kirk

Private
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Interesting assertion. Can you provide sources with specific quotes? For the sake of simplicity, just sourced quotes of Lincoln will suffice.

In all sincerity, are you truly unaware of the fact that all three used that hateful term? By the way, in my view a demand for sources is only proper when the matter being discussed is:

1. Not common knowledge
2. Not easily discoverable

In this case what is being asserted is both commonly known and quite easily discovered.
 

unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Member of the Year
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Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
In all sincerity, are you truly unaware of the fact that all three used that hateful term? By the way, in my view a demand for sources is only proper when the matter being discussed is:

1. Not common knowledge
2. Not easily discoverable

In this case what is being asserted is both commonly known and quite easily discovered.

If it is so easily discovered, you should have no problem posting the sources that state such.

You're on.
 

Kirk

Private
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Thanks for your response.
I am sincerely asking that you provide sources and specific quotes to support the assertions you made.

If we're talking only about Lincoln, please read the Lincoln-Douglas debates. One example (that I used in another context in another thread) was his description of the Fugitive Slave Law as "running and catching ni**ers". On two other occasions during those debates Lincoln used that overtly racist term.
 

WJC

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If we're talking only about Lincoln, please read the Lincoln-Douglas debates. One example (that I used in another context in another thread) was his description of the Fugitive Slave Law as "running and catching ni**ers". On two other occasions during those debates Lincoln used that overtly racist term.
Thanks for your response.
No, since you made the assertion, you ought to have the exact sources and quotes readily available and be able to demonstrate how this 'evidence' shows Lincoln was a "firm supporter of slavery". If you cannot provide them, what are we to think?
 

cash

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
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Location
Right here.
Thanks for your response.
No, since you made the assertion, you ought to have the exact sources and quotes readily available. If you cannot provide them, what are we to think?

Allow me to step in and lend a hand.

Here is the online Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln.

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/l/lincoln/

Simply plug in the word in the simple search window and a number of usages will come up, including usages by Lincoln as well as his opponent, Stephen A. Douglas.

As to what it proves, it proves nothing except like most every other person in the 19th Century, Lincoln used the word.
 

Kirk

Private
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Allow me to step in and lend a hand.

Here is the online Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln.

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/l/lincoln/

Simply plug in the word in the simple search window and a number of usages will come up, including usages by Lincoln as well as his opponent, Stephen A. Douglas.

As to what it proves, it proves nothing except like most every other person in the 19th Century, Lincoln used the word.


False. I'm in my personal library. As to what it proves, it proves that Lincoln was an unabashed white-supremacist who used grotesque and dehumanizing language to describe African-Americans.
 

WJC

Major General
Judge Adv. Genl.
Thread Medic
Answered the Call for Reinforcements
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Allow me to step in and lend a hand.

Here is the online Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln.

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/l/lincoln/

Simply plug in the word in the simple search window and a number of usages will come up, including usages by Lincoln as well as his opponent, Stephen A. Douglas.

As to what it proves, it proves nothing except like most every other person in the 19th Century, Lincoln used the word.
Thanks. My objective is not simply to show that Lincoln spoke the same language as every other American at that time (language that many thought acceptable and in no way derogatory). It is to find out how the language is evidence for the assertion that "Lincoln was a firm believer in slavery."
 

cash

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Right here.
Thanks. My objective is not simply to show that Lincoln spoke the same language as every other American at that time ( language that many thought was acceptable and in no way derogatory). It is to find out how the language is evidence for the assertion that "Lincoln was a firm believer in slavery."

Well, it's not, as a search of the Collected Works will show.
 

Kirk

Private
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Thanks. My objective is not simply to show that Lincoln spoke the same language as every other American at that time ( language that many thought was acceptable and in no way derogatory). It is to find out how the language is evidence for the assertion that "Lincoln was a firm believer in slavery."

Prove it. Find me a source which proves that every single American in 1858 used the word "ni**er".
 

WJC

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As to what it proves, it proves that Lincoln was an unabashed white-supremacist who used grotesque and dehumanizing language to describe African-Americans.
How?
While the term is seen today as derogatory, it was not during Lincoln's time. And even if it were then everything you say it is, how does it show that "Lincoln was a firm believer in slavery"?
 

Burning Billy

Sergeant
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
"Made so plain by our good Father in Heaven, that all feel and understand it, even down to brutes and creeping insects. The ant, who has toiled and dragged a crumb to his nest, will furiously defend the fruit of his labor, against whatever robber assails him. So plain, that the most dumb and stupid slave that ever toiled for a master, does constantly know that he is wronged. So plain that no one, high or low, ever does mistake it, except in a plainly selfish way; for although volume upon volume is written to prove slavery a very good thing, we never hear of the man who wishes to take the good of it, by being a slave himself."

---Abraham Lincoln
 

WJC

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Prove it. Find me a source which proves that every single American in 1858 used the word "ni**er".
Thanks for your response.
I don't have to show that "every single American in 1858" used the term. I did not make that claim. You, however, have yet to show us your sources and the specific quotes that support your claim that "Lincoln was a firm believer in slavery". If you cannot do that, there is no reason for us to take your claim seriously.
 
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