Did Lincoln Abhor Slavery? (poll)

Did Lincoln Abhor Slavery?

  • Yes

    Votes: 39 62.9%
  • No

    Votes: 20 32.3%
  • Don't Know

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Total voters
    62

wbull1

First Sergeant
Official Vendor
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
What "supporting" the Fugitive Slave Law and "supporting" slavery have in common is that Lincoln was unwilling to break the law of the land. He was not an abolitionist in part because many of them wanted to act outside the law. He clearly stated he believed whites were superior to blacks. He also saw blacks are fully human and entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which made him more enlightened than most or all whites of his time. He used ni**ers as almost every, if not every, white man did. Take his remarks out of his time and repeat them today and they sound terrible. We have thank goodness and thank Lincoln come a long way in our thinking since then.
 

Kirk

Private
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
What "supporting" the Fugitive Slave Law and "supporting" slavery have in common is that Lincoln was unwilling to break the law of the land. He was not an abolitionist in part because many of them wanted to act outside the law. He clearly stated he believed whites were superior to blacks. He also saw blacks are fully human and entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which made him more enlightened than most or all whites of his time. He used ni**ers as almost every, if not every, white man did. Take his remarks out of his time and repeat them today and they sound terrible. We have thank goodness and thank Lincoln come a long way in our thinking since then.

I sharply disagree, and think Lincoln routinely broke the law. And as far as the "n-word" is concerned, I don't think there is any record of Jefferson Davis ever using that word. Or Robert E. Lee or Alexander Stephens for that matter. However, there is a record of Lincoln, Grant, and Sherman using that term.
 

wbull1

First Sergeant
Official Vendor
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
When did Lincoln begin to abhor slavery? Consider the quotations and the dates.

"I have always hated slavery, I think as much as any abolitionist." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Chicago, Illinois" (July 10, 1858), p. 492.


"In 1841 you and I had together a tedious low-water trip, on a Steam Boat from Louisville to St. Louis. You may remember, as I well do, that from Louisville to the mouth of the Ohio there were, on board, ten or a dozen slaves, shackled together with irons. That sight was a continual torment to me; and I see something like it every time I touch the Ohio, or any other slave-border." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Letter to Joshua F. Speed" (August 24, 1855), p. 320.


"I hate it because of the monstrous injustice of slavery itself. I hate it because it deprives our republican example of its just influence in the world." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Peoria, Illinois" (October 16, 1854), p. 255.

"What I do say is, that no man is good enough to govern another man, without that other's consent. I say this is the leading principle - the sheet anchor of American republicanism." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Peoria, Illinois" (October 16, 1854), p. 266.
 

WJC

Major General
Judge Adv. Genl.
Thread Medic
Answered the Call for Reinforcements
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Lincoln was definitely conflicted about slavery to say the least. The record shows he eventually ended slavery in the rebelling Southern States only. Why not all the states however? Let your own logic be the judge.
Because he was President of a republic, not a dictator!
 

wbull1

First Sergeant
Official Vendor
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
I sharply disagree, and think Lincoln routinely broke the law. And as far as the "n-word" is concerned, I don't think there is any record of Jefferson Davis ever using that word. Or Robert E. Lee or Alexander Stephens for that matter. However, there is a record of Lincoln, Grant, and Sherman using that term.

Since this is not a discussion of his Civil War actions, please tell me when before that time he repeatedly broke the law.
 

Kirk

Private
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
" I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

Those who nominated and elected me did so with full knowledge that I had made this and many similar declarations and had never recanted them; and more than this, they placed in the platform for my acceptance, and as a law to themselves and to me, the clear and emphatic resolution which I now read:

Resolved, That the maintenance inviolate of the rights of the States, and especially the right of each State to order and control its own domestic institutions according to its own judgment exclusively, is essential to that balance of power on which the perfection and endurance of our political fabric depend; and we denounce the lawless invasion by armed force of the soil of any State or Territory, no matter what pretext, as among the gravest of crimes.

I now reiterate these sentiments, and in doing so I only press upon the public attention the most conclusive evidence of which the case is susceptible that the property, peace, and security of no section are to be in any wise endangered by the now incoming Administration. I add, too, that all the protection which, consistently with the Constitution and the laws, can be given will be cheerfully given to all the States when lawfully demanded, for whatever cause--as cheerfully to one section as to another.

There is much controversy about the delivering up of fugitives from service or labor. The clause I now read is as plainly written in the Constitution as any other of its provisions:

No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall in consequence of any law or regulation therein be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due...


Abe's first inagural...
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Lincoln was definitely conflicted about slavery to say the least. The record shows he eventually ended slavery in the rebelling Southern States only. Why not all the states however? Let your own logic be the judge.
1. Because the President was President. He wasn't emperor or pharaoh. Slavery was a state matter and could not be abolished by edict or even by Congress passing a law. It could only be abolished: by the slave state itself or by constitutional amendment.

2. So in fact, Lincoln ended slavery everywhere in the US by pushing the 13th Amendment. So he did end slavery in all the states.

3. The EP applied to the rebellious areas alone, because it was a war measure, issued by the Commander in chief. That's as far as his authority went. To clean out slavery completely, he had to have a constitutional amendment: which he then advocated and politicked for.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
I think a better question would be at what time did Lincoln abhor slavery.
His writings/ speeches before the war and after it started are markedly different.
He abhorrence of slavery is a constant. What changes are:
1. His racial attitudes----they improved.
2. His policy toward slavery. But they reflects the change in the political circumstances.
 

StephenColbert27

First Sergeant
" I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

Those who nominated and elected me did so with full knowledge that I had made this and many similar declarations and had never recanted them; and more than this, they placed in the platform for my acceptance, and as a law to themselves and to me, the clear and emphatic resolution which I now read:

Resolved, That the maintenance inviolate of the rights of the States, and especially the right of each State to order and control its own domestic institutions according to its own judgment exclusively, is essential to that balance of power on which the perfection and endurance of our political fabric depend; and we denounce the lawless invasion by armed force of the soil of any State or Territory, no matter what pretext, as among the gravest of crimes.

I now reiterate these sentiments, and in doing so I only press upon the public attention the most conclusive evidence of which the case is susceptible that the property, peace, and security of no section are to be in any wise endangered by the now incoming Administration. I add, too, that all the protection which, consistently with the Constitution and the laws, can be given will be cheerfully given to all the States when lawfully demanded, for whatever cause--as cheerfully to one section as to another.

There is much controversy about the delivering up of fugitives from service or labor. The clause I now read is as plainly written in the Constitution as any other of its provisions:

No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall in consequence of any law or regulation therein be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due...


Abe's first inagural...
None of this indicates that Lincoln did not personally abhor slavery, as others have shown using Lincoln's own words. It is entirely consistent for Lincoln to personally detest slavery, but pledge not to act against it within his role of commander-in-chief because of his stated belief that he did not at that time have the authority to do so.
 

uaskme

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Location
SE Tennessee
1. Confiscation Acts
2. Emancipation Proclamation
3.Recruiting black troops
4.hanging slave ship captain
5.Meeting with African American leaders in the White House, the first time in history, the last time before Theodore Roosevelt.
6.Outlawing slavery in DC
7.Pushing for emancipation in loyal states
8.13th Amendment

People can be critical about how fast Lincoln moved. If they had been there, everything would have been wrapped up in two weeks!
21st century people might wag their fingers at Lincoln's racial attitudes. He was moderate compared to Thad Stevens or Frederick Douglass. But compared to his Northern Democrats opponents and the Confederates, he sounds like Malcolm X.

#5 What did he tell them? Didn't sound like Malcolm X
 

KeyserSoze

Captain
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Location
Kansas City
He also said the following:
Lincoln Douglas 4 th debate

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/the-lincoln-douglas-debates-4th-debate-part-i/

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

What does that have to do with slavery?
 

KeyserSoze

Captain
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Location
Kansas City
Oddly, you didn't post anything relative to Lincoln's support for the Fugitive Slave Law. In fairness to you, however, maybe it's only because you are unfamiliar with exactly how Lincoln described that law. So, to clear up any confusion, Lincoln described the Fugitive Slave law as "running and catching ni**ers". Then he pledged his support for it. So please, enough of Lincoln as some sort of harmless, avuncular, cherub. He was a crude, crass, ruthless, white-supremacist.

Source for that quote please.

PPS- You also forgot to mention that the Constitution of Illinois also specifically disallowed blacks.

Possibly because it didn't.
 
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