Did Arkansas' General Holmes Lose Vicksburg?

In early 1863, Edmund Kirby-Smith took command of all Confederate forces west of the Mississippi, at which point Holmes became a district commander under him. So maybe we should be looking at the decisions made by Smith instead of Holmes.
 
When Taylor's position in southern Louisiana fell apart after Banks moved up the Teche in early April, Kirby-Smith called for Walker to be come from Arkansas to help. Initially Walker was supposed to come down by river to meet Taylor at Alexandria, but in early May Banks and the Navy captured Alexandria and Taylor retreated toward Shreveport. So Walker went back to Monroe then headed west overland, getting as far as Campti. By this point Banks had left Alexandria to besiege Port Hudson. So Taylor, with Walker, followed down river to Alexandria then turned north up the Tensas to attack Grant's base at Milliken.

Banks (and Porter) disrupted the Confederates in Louisiana, something Banks never seems to get much credit for. Grant went unmolested during a critical period in May when he certainly had some vulnerability along the west bank of the Mississippi.
 
Davis didn't focus his army on defending Richmond and letting all of Mississippi go. Why do you think there are troops sent from Bragg and Beauregard in Mississippi in 1863?

You could say "but none from Lee", but there's a very wide gulf between not dropping everything else for a relief effort and abandoning it.

I'm not going to say whether or not Davis's decision was best in this thread, but I will point here (which talks about sending Lee's men west): http://civilwartalk.com/threads/confederate-strategy-in-may-june-1863-the-what-ifs.10013/

Most of it is about sending troops to Tennessee rather than Mississippi directly, I fear, but its still relevant to the problems with trying to do something about Vicksburg in '63.

As for Holmes's role, I defer to the people more familiar with his record - I'm not impressed by it, but I don't know if what he had to work with would have been successful. His career has always struck me as south of mediocre without having any specific blunder to clearly define. Just disappointment and excuses.

I can't judge how reasonable the expectations on him were, so I won't try to say if he was incompetent or simply overwhelmed by a big task here. The Confederacy does not have enough troops to go around.
I do agree with your last sentence .After 1863 ,the Confedercey army was streched like a spring ,streached till it looked more like a straight cord.There were available at times troops that could have fought but the governors refushed to release them .Some recieved exempt notices.If you want to understand how desperate we the South .what were the ages of the BOYS that went in in 1864?,We ,theSouth were calling up old men.Then finnally we were even concidering arming slaves.From the beginning it was a war of nuttrition.
 
Davis didn't focus his army on defending Richmond and letting all of Mississippi go. Why do you think there are troops sent from Bragg and Beauregard in Mississippi in 1863?

You could say "but none from Lee", but there's a very wide gulf between not dropping everything else for a relief effort and abandoning it.

I'm not going to say whether or not Davis's decision was best in this thread, but I will point here (which talks about sending Lee's men west): http://civilwartalk.com/threads/confederate-strategy-in-may-june-1863-the-what-ifs.10013/

Most of it is about sending troops to Tennessee rather than Mississippi directly, I fear, but its still relevant to the problems with trying to do something about Vicksburg in '63.

As for Holmes's role, I defer to the people more familiar with his record - I'm not impressed by it, but I don't know if what he had to work with would have been successful. His career has always struck me as south of mediocre without having any specific blunder to clearly define. Just disappointment and excuses.

I can't judge how reasonable the expectations on him were, so I won't try to say if he was incompetent or simply overwhelmed by a big task here. The Confederacy does not have enough troops to go around.[/QUOTE For the military stratagist in the crowd , how do you fight a three different wars with limited resourses?I said wars because that was what the Confederate govenment was doing by1863.Each one having to either to be won or at least hold that foe in check.Give me a war in which the victor with the same resources vs another with unlimited .They may win battles but in the end their only pray is ,as with the Confederecy,is that the people will tire and call the larger force home,aka Viet Nam
 
He refused to leave Arkansas and co-operate with the Confederate plans to fight Grant.
He said it would lose Arkansas.
Johnston wanted to be put over a Tennessee and Arkansas command instead of Tennessee and Mississippi because he saw how much closer the Arkansas troops all were to help in this fight.

Maybe Pemberton wasn't the only one to blame for Vicksburg?

How much did General Holmes view change the war in this arena?

Holmes was appointed commander of the Trans-Mississippi Department and then the District of Arkansas. His command responsibility was for the most part focused on Arkansas, even as Trans-Mississippi commander. This is why E. Kirby Smith was initially assigned to command of Texas and West Louisiana because Holmes ignored them (or did not have enough energy or capacity to oversee them).

It is important to look at things from Holmes's perspective - the fall of Arkansas Post strips him of Churchill's division and opens an entirely new front against his base, Little Rock. He must defend from two fronts, an advance from the northwest with Hindman's/Price's division (about 7,800 men) and Marmaduke's cavalry (5,000 horse, but mostly raiding), while to cover against McClernand's potential move against Little Rock up the Arkansas River or a general advance from Helena, he must keep Walker's division (6,000 more or less) based at Pine Bluff. In theory and in practice, Walker's division was the detachable element from Holmes's district, as later in 1863 Walker would be transferred to Louisiana with his three brigades. Price's division was out of the question, being composed of Missouri State Guardsmen who had refused to enlist in the Confederate army east of the Mississippi and less than enthusiastic Arkansas conscripts.

However, I don't think the department could spare Walker's division, nor did they have the naval strength to attempt a crossing by anything other than be sneaking detachments across, given that the Federal navy controlled the river for much of Arkansas and Louisiana. The only Confederate naval vessel in Arkansas was the gunboat-turned-ram C.S.S. Pontchartrain, had been stripped of its' guns and was still undergoing the conversion process to a ram at Little Rock, and even think I think it would have been inadequate to cover a transfer of Walker's troops.

That said, Holmes could have done something to take the initiative far earlier than he did on his side of the river.
 
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Most Trans-Miss men had joined the army to defend their states and homes. In their view, crossing the Mississippi would prevent them from doing what they joined to do, so there was strong opposition from the troops throughout the war.
I would like to know if the Confedercey had a War department and did it have a Secertary ? I ask this because it seems it was ,if they had one, it seems to have been totally inepte in performing its duties.I have yet to read of it performing in acts in regard to the army or military procedures. All that I have read is thea Davis seems to be the one who ran the entire military . At least Lincoln had Stanton ,who did help him in some very important decesions.
 
I would like to know if the Confedercey had a War department and did it have a Secertary ? I ask this because it seems it was ,if they had one, it seems to have been totally inepte in performing its duties.I have yet to read of it performing in acts in regard to the army or military procedures. All that I have read is thea Davis seems to be the one who ran the entire military . At least Lincoln had Stanton ,who did help him in some very important decesions.

The Confederacy did indeed have a War Department. During Holmes's tenure in the District of Arkansas, George A. Randolph and James A. Seddon served as Secretaries of War. Randolph resigned after being reprimanded for ordering Holmes to send troops to Vicksburg as giving an "improper order", while Seddon was the longest serving Secretary of War. However, as you note, Davis's interference made the position have a high turnover rate. Even Seddon couldn't remain. Maj. Gen. Breckinridge was temporarily assigned to be the last Secretary of War, but the Confederacy collapsed before a permanent replacement could ever be found.
 
Holmes was appointed commander of the Trans-Mississippi Department and then the District of Arkansas. His command responsibility was for the most part focused on Arkansas, even as Trans-Mississippi commander. This is why E. Kirby Smith was initially assigned to command of Texas and West Louisiana because Holmes ignored them (or did not have enough energy or capacity to oversee them).

It is important to look at things from Holmes's perspective - the fall of Arkansas Post strips him of Churchill's division and opens an entirely new front against his base, Little Rock. He must defend from two fronts, an advance from the northwest with Hindman's/Price's division (about 7,800 men) and Marmaduke's cavalry (5,000 horse, but mostly raiding), while to cover against McClernand's potential move against Little Rock up the Arkansas River or a general advance from Helena, he must keep Walker's division (6,000 more or less) based at Pine Bluff. In theory and in practice, Walker's division was the detachable element from Holmes's district, as later in 1863 Walker would be transferred to Louisiana with his three brigades. Price's division was out of the question, being composed of Missouri State Guardsmen who had refused to enlist in the Confederate army east of the Mississippi and less than enthusiastic Arkansas conscripts.

However, I don't think the department could spare Walker's division, nor did they have the naval strength to attempt a crossing by anything other than be sneaking detachments across, given that the Federal navy controlled the river for much of Arkansas and Louisiana. The only Confederate naval vessel in Arkansas was the gunboat-turned-ram C.S.S. Pontchartrain, had been stripped of its' guns and was still undergoing the conversion process to a ram at Little Rock, and even think I think it would have been inadequate to cover a transfer of Walker's troops.

That said, Holmes could have done something to take the initiative far earlier than he did on his side of the river.
In the midst of this post is the acknowledgement that many Missouri State Guard were reluctant Confederates. Pro slavery and against the Union occupation, but reluctant Confederates.
That gets missed a lot.
 
Davis didn't focus his army on defending Richmond and letting all of Mississippi go. Why do you think there are troops sent from Bragg and Beauregard in Mississippi in 1863?

You could say "but none from Lee", but there's a very wide gulf between not dropping everything else for a relief effort and abandoning it.

I'm not going to say whether or not Davis's decision was best in this thread, but I will point here (which talks about sending Lee's men west): http://civilwartalk.com/threads/confederate-strategy-in-may-june-1863-the-what-ifs.10013/

Most of it is about sending troops to Tennessee rather than Mississippi directly, I fear, but its still relevant to the problems with trying to do something about Vicksburg in '63.

As for Holmes's role, I defer to the people more familiar with his record - I'm not impressed by it, but I don't know if what he had to work with would have been successful. His career has always struck me as south of mediocre without having any specific blunder to clearly define. Just disappointment and excuses.

I can't judge how reasonable the expectations on him were, so I won't try to say if he was incompetent or simply overwhelmed by a big task here. The Confederacy does not have enough troops to go around.
Agree with the last statement. The question is why did Davis not order the evacuation of Vicksburg in order to save the army before Grant and Sherman shut the exit down.I t does appear that Pemberton shut the gates and hoped that he would be rescued .
 
The Confederacy did indeed have a War Department. During Holmes's tenure in the District of Arkansas, George A. Randolph and James A. Seddon served as Secretaries of War. Randolph resigned after being reprimanded for ordering Holmes to send troops to Vicksburg as giving an "improper order", while Seddon was the longest serving Secretary of War. However, as you note, Davis's interference made the position have a high turnover rate. Even Seddon couldn't remain. Maj. Gen. Breckinridge was temporarily assigned to be the last Secretary of War, but the Confederacy collapsed before a permanent replacement could ever be found.
Then we can state that Davis who thought that he was to recieve a army field command instead of the president,choose to assume command of the Confederate army since he was Commander in Chief . Why does it seem that he used this authority more in the western theater than with Lee? Did Lee have to inform Davis of his movement esp. his invasion into the North? Lincoln does not have had that difficulty with his war department once Stanton was appointed.This is another reason that the Union army opperated more effective than the CSA.
 
I've read that Arkansas was almost a wild territory. Local authority was just about all their was any allegiance accorded.
How could so many people be barefooted and live healthily? Is it exaggerated I wonder?
Living close to the soil is healthy. Barefoot in the south didn't use to be an unnatural act.
 
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