Defarbed Vs Non Defarbed Vs Original Long Arms

koabd1978

Private
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Location
West Michigan
Hello, I was wondering if anyone has comparison photos of defarbed vs non defarbed vs original long arms

I would love to see them as I am starting my hunt for a long arm to actually become proficient at shooting and would like as much accuracy as possible at least in looks

tia
 

johan_steele

Regimental Armorer
Retired Moderator
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
South of the North 40
Hello, I was wondering if anyone has comparison photos of defarbed vs non defarbed vs original long arms

I would love to see them as I am starting my hunt for a long arm to actually become proficient at shooting and would like as much accuracy as possible at least in looks

tia
Dennis Fulmer is another consistent source for excellent original arms. He is also quite honest and will tell it like it is about a weapon.


His prices are generally reasonable IMHO.
 

FedericoFCavada

Sergeant
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Location
San Antonio, Texas
A few "flies in the ointment" to be aware of--certainly I wasn't anyway!

If you are going to use your rifle musket at a NPS battlefield site, it has to be a new reproduction only. There are strict rules against originals for firing demos.

If you are going to collect, then you'll want an original.

If you are going to live fire your rifle from time to time, an original in far-from-pristine condition can have a new cone and a relining of the barrel, albeit extra money of course.

Good luck with your choice! I've got a reproduction .58 Model 1841 percussion rifle and an original rifled and sighted Model 1842 Springfield rifled musket. I do not do Civil War living history impressions, but I do some skirmishing.
 

koabd1978

Private
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Location
West Michigan
A few "flies in the ointment" to be aware of--certainly I wasn't anyway!

If you are going to use your rifle musket at a NPS battlefield site, it has to be a new reproduction only. There are strict rules against originals for firing demos.

If you are going to collect, then you'll want an original.

If you are going to live fire your rifle from time to time, an original in far-from-pristine condition can have a new cone and a relining of the barrel, albeit extra money of course.

Good luck with your choice! I've got a reproduction .58 Model 1841 percussion rifle and an original rifled and sighted Model 1842 Springfield rifled musket. I do not do Civil War living history impressions, but I do some skirmishing.

good to know !
 

poorjack

Corporal
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Location
NC
If you are serious about becoming proficient in shooting these critters, have a look at the North South Skirmish Association mentioned in the sticky at the top of this forum. We shoot both repops and originals in competition. Obviously we aren't shooting museum quality originals but there are plenty of original parts out there to assemble an "original" without destroying the collector value of a good specimen.

As for "defarbing" now that's a seriously debatable issue. Some folks want that defarb done to be as close to an original as possible and in the pursuit of their goal, they have unwittingly created a forgery that may be hard to distinguish from an original. As a former reenactor, my opinion on the subject was, and still is, if you want that level of authenticity, build an "original" from parts and do not create stuff that somebody years later will think is an original.
 

FedericoFCavada

Sergeant
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Location
San Antonio, Texas
If you are serious about becoming proficient in shooting these critters, have a look at the North South Skirmish Association mentioned in the sticky at the top of this forum. We shoot both repops and originals in competition. Obviously we aren't shooting museum quality originals but there are plenty of original parts out there to assemble an "original" without destroying the collector value of a good specimen.

As for "defarbing" now that's a seriously debatable issue. Some folks want that defarb done to be as close to an original as possible and in the pursuit of their goal, they have unwittingly created a forgery that may be hard to distinguish from an original. As a former reenactor, my opinion on the subject was, and still is, if you want that level of authenticity, build an "original" from parts and do not create stuff that somebody years later will think is an original.

Great points. The North-South Skirmish Association is about as close as one can get, with team events approximating firing along a line, even if it is typically as quickly as you can reliably load, aim and shoot. One learns to follow-through, to take careful, deliberate aim, and to practice "economy of motion" in reloading and everything else. So "fire at will" rather than any of the more convoluted "fire by files" or by "rank" etc. Most military historians assume that things eventually went to "fire at will" anyway.

Personally, I reload my own paper cartridges for practice and to see "how it was done." For skirmishing, you'd have to get some plastic reloading cartridge tubes. The powder charge goes in, the Minié/Burton ball is placed in the top, and then if one likes, you can set it into lubricant, which will waterproof the assemblage and lubricate the skirt of your Minié. There are other methods of course, and this method may be a bit overly liberal on the lubricant. I make my own lube from beeswax and mutton tallow just like the original. I started out with a late war Federal lube of 8 parts bees wax and 1 part tallow because Texas is the land of two summers, and I thought the harder lube reflected the use of the rifle muskets in Southern climes that were similarly hot and humid. I found this to be a difficult proposition, and I now use a pre-war/ early war mix of wax and tallow for a softer lubricant. While I'm at it on the stovetop with the double-boiler, I make my own moustache wax as well.

You'll find skirmishers are very generous with advice and recommendations, probably due to the team aspects of events, although there are individual marksmanship events as well. This is decidedly not the case in some marksmanship events as you may know first-hand already. Other shooting sports have competitively-minded people who zealously guard their "trade secrets." On the other hand, most of it is basic skills that simply need to be practiced. But, as an example, I knocked the front sight off my Model 1841 percussion rifle before a match, and a person generously loaned me their .54 cal. to use. I did some of my best shooting that day with a loaned musket and gifted ammo.

Because the Austro-Hungarian Lorenz rifle musket was the principal infantry arm of that Empire, you can go online and watch some impressive videos about it from one of the champion Hungarian muzzle-loaders, Bálazs Németh, who goes by the handle capandball.eu
He's got a fairly thick Magyar accent, which my wife finds charming, but he really does a great job with the Lorenz. He's also got some earlier youtube videos on an original Bridesburg rifle musket too, and comparisons of smooth bore vs. rifled barrel muskets that are all very interesting.

To get your Minié/Burton balls, you'll want to have them within a thousandth or two-thousandths of an inch from your bore size. After you complete that measurement, you can order them sized appropriately from Mr. Patrick Kaboskey over at Lodgewood--his contact information is at their website. He can sell you some until you get started in bullet casting. Personally, I'm casting more "wadcutter" Miniés for my .69 caliber rifled musket these days. I also got a North Carolina "Nessler" bullet mould from Eras Gone in Alabama. There is no practical use for such a thing, and one cannot use anything but a round ball in smooth bore skirmishing competition, but the experimental archaeologist got the better of me, and my attachments to North Carolina made me want to see what the state institute for the Deaf, dumb and blind in Raleigh provided to state troops for use with smooth bores. Before long, you'll be getting other moulds for your Civil War-era arms, often as hand-me-downs or bought quite reasonably from other skirmishers.

Good luck on the hunt for your rifle musket! I will say that at a living history event dedicated to the Texas Revolution, we were honored by a visit from one of the Pedersolis in person. He waxed nostalgic about some of the reproductions we were using from his firm, and told us a story or two about some early barrel makers there in Italy and so on. He was really startled when I asked him when a Lorenz reproduction would be available. He exclaimed that there was absolutely no information divulged by the company, so how did I know about it, and whence came such rumors? Two years later the Lorenz finally came out. Some people have made many criticisms of it. I must say that I really liked the example I put greasy finger prints all over when I saw one in Gettysburg, PA for sale. Those brand new reproductions are expensive, however. Once you get started in skirmishing, you'll find yourself in a network of people who trade and buy and sell second hand or used rifle muskets, and this can be a way to get much more reasonably priced arms and accoutrements.
 

KHyatt

Corporal
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Amen to all of the above comments. I started looking for and finding a Parker Hale P53 Enfield nearly two years ago and I have become seriously hooked. I now have six muskets, including two originals. I’ve learned to cast my own Miniés, lube and size them, and I’m having a great time learning to shoot. I just wish I lived closer to where all the N-SSA action is (I’m in Montana.) I’d love to rub shoulders with real pros and learn from others. But at least folks on CWT have been more than willing to share their expertise. Thanks everybody!
 

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