dlofting
Sergeant Major
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2013
- Location
- Vancouver, BC, Canada
The following is the first post from a thread on the Little Bighorn Association Message Board, that asks the question
Did Custer disobey Terry's orders by crossing the divide?
An area of great controversy over the years has been the debate over whether Custer disobeyed Terry's orders by crossing the divide and attacking a day early. A secondary argument has been over the reasons why Custer did not send scout Herendeen down Tullocks Creek to contact Terry's command. This thread will examine this issue from different perspectives. Feel free to join in with your own views.
We'll begin this examination by looking at the views expressed by LBH author and researcher Fred Wagner, who clearly believes that Custer violated Terry's orders in this regard. His views are explained in his book The Strategy of Defeat at the Little Big Horn:
Custer's instructions were clear: scout the upper reaches of the Rosebud, then cross to the upper Little Big Horn, move north down that river, and drive the Sioux into the blocking point Terry was to reach on the 26th.... Regardless of the decisions Custer had reached ... his choices were now to to continue south along the Rosebud, possibly risking detection ... and losing track of the village, or to leave the Busby camp at night in an attempt to cross the Rosebud-Little Big Horn divide, hiding out for a day while Terry moved into the Little Big Horn valley. If this would be the plan, it meant Custer's scouts could keep track of the hostiles and Custer would still have the elemnent of surprise, still attack from above, and still block escape routes to the east.
(Fred now quotes from author John Gray's analysis given in his book Custer's Last Command):
Custer could follow Terry's recommendation by marching up the Rosebud tomorrow [the 25th] and starting down the Little Big Horn the next day, thus preserving the timing. Even if these marches were made at night, however, he would leave a trail as readable as a poster, and discovery would warn the village to flee and scatter. He would also lose track of the village and at best have to search for it again, at worst it could escape undetected back to the Rosebud and eastward or down the Bighorn and attack Terry's weaker force on the march.
Fred: While one hates to cry sophistry with such a fine academician as Gray, he is ... rationalizing assumptions and equally ... cutting Custer a lot of slack here, for as we have seen, no one thought to warn the Sioux of Custer's approach even though they claimed ... to have seen a regiment of cavalry a day's ride away.... They had no idea Gibbon had returned to the Rosebud and they were completely unaware of Reno's earlier movements ..., Terry's presence, and now Custer's proximity. (p. 14-15)
So with this in mind it is necessary to look at what Terry expected of his cavalry commander. The importance of Tullock's Creek is predicated on the assumption Custer would obey his instructions.... As can be seen from his orders, it was specifically stated Custer "should thoroughly examine the upper part of Tullock's Creek, and ... should endeavor to send a scout through to Colonel Gibbon's column, with information of the results of your examination." We see no requirement to include plans to have found Indians before sending Terry the information required. The commanding general wanted to know if Tullock's was clear. By tossing aside the importance of scouting this area, we assume it was acceptable for Custer to disobey his orders. While we have seen he was given a certain amount of latitude in the execution of those orders, Custer was given no latitude in their interpretation. He was ordered specifically to examine "the upper part of Tullock's Creek" and ordered specifically to "endeavor" to report his findings to Gibbon. He neither examined nor endeavored.
He was also directed to continue south, regardless of whether the trail would leave the Rosebud environs. The following phrase, "Should it be found (as it appears almost certain that it will be found) to turn towards the Little Horn, [General Terry] thinks that you should still proceed southward," already anticipates and precludes Custer's rationale for following the Indian trail; "unless you should see sufficient reason for departing from [these orders]," would, therefore, not apply here because Custer's reasons have already been preempted, they have been pre-considered insufficient. In other words, following the Indian trail just because it might diverge from the Rosebud was not sufficient justification for Custer to do what he did. It was not an option. At this point, all Terry knew -- and expected to know -- was Custer was moving up the Rosebud, following his orders. The forethought in the orders trumps the afterthought of their execution. (p. 39 - 40)
Read more: http://thelbha.proboards.com/thread/2874/custer-disobey-terrys-orders-crossing#ixzz4UMVwsknD
Did Custer disobey Terry's orders by crossing the divide?
An area of great controversy over the years has been the debate over whether Custer disobeyed Terry's orders by crossing the divide and attacking a day early. A secondary argument has been over the reasons why Custer did not send scout Herendeen down Tullocks Creek to contact Terry's command. This thread will examine this issue from different perspectives. Feel free to join in with your own views.
We'll begin this examination by looking at the views expressed by LBH author and researcher Fred Wagner, who clearly believes that Custer violated Terry's orders in this regard. His views are explained in his book The Strategy of Defeat at the Little Big Horn:
Custer's instructions were clear: scout the upper reaches of the Rosebud, then cross to the upper Little Big Horn, move north down that river, and drive the Sioux into the blocking point Terry was to reach on the 26th.... Regardless of the decisions Custer had reached ... his choices were now to to continue south along the Rosebud, possibly risking detection ... and losing track of the village, or to leave the Busby camp at night in an attempt to cross the Rosebud-Little Big Horn divide, hiding out for a day while Terry moved into the Little Big Horn valley. If this would be the plan, it meant Custer's scouts could keep track of the hostiles and Custer would still have the elemnent of surprise, still attack from above, and still block escape routes to the east.
(Fred now quotes from author John Gray's analysis given in his book Custer's Last Command):
Custer could follow Terry's recommendation by marching up the Rosebud tomorrow [the 25th] and starting down the Little Big Horn the next day, thus preserving the timing. Even if these marches were made at night, however, he would leave a trail as readable as a poster, and discovery would warn the village to flee and scatter. He would also lose track of the village and at best have to search for it again, at worst it could escape undetected back to the Rosebud and eastward or down the Bighorn and attack Terry's weaker force on the march.
Fred: While one hates to cry sophistry with such a fine academician as Gray, he is ... rationalizing assumptions and equally ... cutting Custer a lot of slack here, for as we have seen, no one thought to warn the Sioux of Custer's approach even though they claimed ... to have seen a regiment of cavalry a day's ride away.... They had no idea Gibbon had returned to the Rosebud and they were completely unaware of Reno's earlier movements ..., Terry's presence, and now Custer's proximity. (p. 14-15)
So with this in mind it is necessary to look at what Terry expected of his cavalry commander. The importance of Tullock's Creek is predicated on the assumption Custer would obey his instructions.... As can be seen from his orders, it was specifically stated Custer "should thoroughly examine the upper part of Tullock's Creek, and ... should endeavor to send a scout through to Colonel Gibbon's column, with information of the results of your examination." We see no requirement to include plans to have found Indians before sending Terry the information required. The commanding general wanted to know if Tullock's was clear. By tossing aside the importance of scouting this area, we assume it was acceptable for Custer to disobey his orders. While we have seen he was given a certain amount of latitude in the execution of those orders, Custer was given no latitude in their interpretation. He was ordered specifically to examine "the upper part of Tullock's Creek" and ordered specifically to "endeavor" to report his findings to Gibbon. He neither examined nor endeavored.
He was also directed to continue south, regardless of whether the trail would leave the Rosebud environs. The following phrase, "Should it be found (as it appears almost certain that it will be found) to turn towards the Little Horn, [General Terry] thinks that you should still proceed southward," already anticipates and precludes Custer's rationale for following the Indian trail; "unless you should see sufficient reason for departing from [these orders]," would, therefore, not apply here because Custer's reasons have already been preempted, they have been pre-considered insufficient. In other words, following the Indian trail just because it might diverge from the Rosebud was not sufficient justification for Custer to do what he did. It was not an option. At this point, all Terry knew -- and expected to know -- was Custer was moving up the Rosebud, following his orders. The forethought in the orders trumps the afterthought of their execution. (p. 39 - 40)
Read more: http://thelbha.proboards.com/thread/2874/custer-disobey-terrys-orders-crossing#ixzz4UMVwsknD