CSS WEBB

rebelatsea

Captain
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Location
Kent ,England.
Using the ship's lines and two paintings, one before conversion and one after, I have drawn a plan of her.


WILLIAM H WEBB.jpg


CSS WEBB from CSN Museum.jpg


WEBB LINES.jpg


CSS WEBB.jpg

I've had to make some assumptions about the superstructure on the upper deck, and can anyone explain what the object is on her bow, is it a boarding plank ?
 
CSS Webb is listed as a Ram, yes? Could it be a boom meant to drop to the horizontal upon order?

I know we're use to see Rams of the period looking like a Greek/Roman warship, with the pointy end just under the surface but if this one was properly mounted (with the rams' *arms* bolted to several ribs in the bow), that could displace the shock of impact.

PS - also listed as a Privateer. Could also double as a boarding plank, if the Ram was meant to pin & disable rather than sink.
 
Well done, John! I understand that you show her almost final appearance. She should have two Quaker broadside guns aft of the superstructure. She also had a bow-mounted spar torpedo at that time.
I will have to find the reference material I have (it's so d**m hard without the access to my old desktop computer), which gives some details about her appearance during the famous "Indianola Affair". One thing is sure, her bow was not strengthened in any way when she rammed the Indianola.
 
Well done, John! I understand that you show her almost final appearance. She should have two Quaker broadside guns aft of the superstructure. She also had a bow-mounted spar torpedo at that time.
I will have to find the reference material I have (it's so d**m hard without the access to my old desktop computer), which gives some details about her appearance during the famous "Indianola Affair". One thing is sure, her bow was not strengthened in any way when she rammed the Indianola.
Thanks Kaz, so that thing is a spar then, there's no date to the painting but yes I'd guess that's the final appearance. All my references say she had 1 -130pdr mlr and 2 x 12pdr howitzers. The bow as you can see is definitely reinforced.
There is no sign of observation slits or ports in the top superstructure, so I'm guessing the pilot house was removed and the wheel etc was open to the elements, as you will see I didn't show that - easier to add it later.
 
That watercolor looks very modern, so I would say it's an interpretation as yours is, John, rather than a primary source.

Agree that's supposed to be a spar torpedo.

ETA: That's a VERY sharp bow entry, that I presume is unrelated to her later military service.
 
That painting appears in another CWT thread on the Indianola Affir, with this note, "Here is the wall painting of the Webb (again as she appeared during her last sortie) from the Civil War Naval Museum at Port Columbus. Photo copyright Bil Ragan."

Would that be @Bil R ?
 
Primary source, written by a crewman -
The "Webb" had an armament consisting of one 58 pound rifled cannon on the forward deck and two 12 round brass guns on her afterdeck with about 50 rifles and pikes for the crew. She had a solid wood bow for 50 feet which made her a pretty good ram, she had a spar 50 feet long fastened at the waters edge in the bow with a 100 pound torpedo on the end so it could be lowered or raised as need be.
https://civilwartalk.com/threads/ram-webb.94600/#post-791743



It was a magnificent sight to see us firing up the big furnace of the "Webb" when a fire door would be opened one of the men would dip a five foot piece of pine in a barrel of tar and throw it in while 2 or 3 more men was shoveling coal and rosin as fast as they could. Officers and all taking a run at it, and as the furnace was so hot no one could stay long enough to put in more than one or two sticks before he was burned out,and had to give way to someone else. And then to see the big roll of black smoke coming out of herchimney, and roll and settle on the water like a huge snake writhing in misery, but although there were 72 persons all told on the boat and all took a hand too, we could not keep up a good head of steam, so as to make her do her best and if we had to make a run several days we could have kept up steam enough for her to make a good run. After we got below Morganza through some mistake of the Pilot we came very near blowing up with our Torpedo, the passenger steamer "Saratoga" loaded with passengers.
Ibid.

Well done, John! I understand that you show her almost final appearance. She should have two Quaker broadside guns aft of the superstructure. She also had a bow-mounted spar torpedo at that time.

Just sayin -

Mr. William Biggio, lately proprietor of the St. James Hotel, in Corpus Christi, was the hero of an undertaking that will go down in history as one of the most daring deeds of the War of the States. I refer to the running of the blockade at the mouth of Red River by the Confederate ram Webb, and of her perilous journey down the Mississippi River to a point below New Orleans. Three years ago I learned incidentally that Mr. Biggio was a pilot on the Webb; so I appealed to him to give the story of the occurrence as a matter of history, and he reluctantly consented. It is as follows:

"The W. H. Webb was built in New York several years prior to the war for the New York Underwriters. She was of fine model and was employed for wrecking purposes and for assisting vessels in distress. She had two independent engines, two walking beams, thirty-five-foot wheels, and was the most powerful vessel of her size then extant. After being thus used for a few years, she was sold to Peter Marcy, of New Orleans, who used her as a low-bar towboat. These towboats were very powerful vessels, and the Webb was the strongest of all. When New Orleans was captured by Butler, the Webb was sent up to Red River by her owner for safekeeping. Soon after reaching Red River she came into the possession of the Confederates, and she was converted into a ram. She was accordingly strengthened and fitted up as such with an armament of one 32-inch swivel rifle in her bow, two nine-inch decoy guns, one on each side, and two 12pounders aft. Thus equipped, the Webb was ready for work as a Confederate ram. The first exploit of the Webb was to sink the Federal gunboat Indianola, which had run the gantlet at Vicksburg and was the first blockade vessel at the mouth of Red River. While there the Webb ran into the Indianola one night and sent her to the bottom of the river. Shortly after this the Webb had another fight at Atchafalaya.
Confederate Veteran, Vol 22 Iss 1 p.22
https://books.google.com/books?id=3ZvlAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq="Ram+webb"+confederate&source=bl&ots=6kTkQIsP49&sig=7mgnzHnGHMtisOs_tfSByd6TPjs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiI_7nThKzUAhXL6yYKHTwjCfUQ6AEITjAI#v=onepage&q="Ram webb" confederate&f=false

I will have to find the reference material I have (it's so d**m hard without the access to my old desktop computer), which gives some details about her appearance during the famous "Indianola Affair". One thing is sure, her bow was not strengthened in any way when she rammed the Indianola.

So maybe there *was* an unseen Roman/Greek style ram under the waterline at the bow?
Pressed into service by the Confederate States in mid-January 1862 and converted a ram http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/86/86591.htm
 
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Lol. So ,now we have a 130pdr mlr and two 12pdrs according to the USN chronology and Paul H. Silverstone, a 32inch (!!!) swivel rifle and two 9" decoy guns ,one on each side (I can add them ) plus the 2 -12pdrs aft, which is were I put them. A 50ft spar with 100pdr warhead.
On balance I think I will go with : I -100pdr on a 50ft spar, the 130pdr mlr on the bow, I will add two "quaker" poles /tree trunks in he forward ports, and 2 -12pdr how aft.
 
John: Just an observation. In your plan you have the cotton-bales extending aft of the wheels; the color painting does not appear to show that.
 
Hello Gentlemen,

John that is a fine reconstruction and as I recently told Kaz,'with the Webb John will definitely show us a beautiful sheer'. I would move the walking beams and funnel a bit forward. Typically the aft end of the beam attached to the wheel crank shaft and the fore to the engine cylinder. The center of the A-frame would be nearer the fore side of the wheel box. Where did the very first sketch come from? Who was the artist and what was the approximate date of the drawing? I have not seen it before and it does appear to be a classic antebellum towboat although the hull does not appear as deep as the Webb's.

The painting is an enlargement from the wall mural at the National Civil War Naval Museum. It is of recent origin and the artist depicted the vessel based upon information provided by the museum. That painting is similar to another recent sketch done of the Webb found in a book describing Algiers.

The best possible source for accurate Webb details as built would be the Special Collections department of the Webb Institute (New York). Unfortunately, my last inquiry to them was returned with a polite notice that they no longer had the resources to answer research requests. I have yet to make formal plans to visit the institute but I know they have some comprehensive and unique files on Webb built vessels, and other vessels built in the New York area (19th century).

A couple of years ago Kaz located a newspaper article (great find), I believe from the early 1900s, that was based on an interview of a former Shreveport Station sailor. Granted, the details were hazy after so much time but the article did include his rough sketch of the Missouri and the Webb. From such a sketch one could get a fair idea of the extent of the deck house, funnel and mast and their locations relative to the wheels. I don't have my copy immediately at hand but perhaps Kaz can comment.

All the best,
Bil
 
John: Just an observation. In your plan you have the cotton-bales extending aft of the wheels; the color painting does not appear to show that.
I studied that for a long time, and decided that, on balance it would make sense to protect the machinery from aft, but I'm not 100% sure what the picture is trying to portray there.
 
Hello Gentlemen,

John that is a fine reconstruction and as I recently told Kaz,'with the Webb John will definitely show us a beautiful sheer'. I would move the walking beams and funnel a bit forward. Typically the aft end of the beam attached to the wheel crank shaft and the fore to the engine cylinder. The center of the A-frame would be nearer the fore side of the wheel box. Where did the very first sketch come from? Who was the artist and what was the approximate date of the drawing? I have not seen it before and it does appear to be a classic antebellum towboat although the hull does not appear as deep as the Webb's.

The painting is an enlargement from the wall mural at the National Civil War Naval Museum. It is of recent origin and the artist depicted the vessel based upon information provided by the museum. That painting is similar to another recent sketch done of the Webb found in a book describing Algiers.

The best possible source for accurate Webb details as built would be the Special Collections department of the Webb Institute (New York). Unfortunately, my last inquiry to them was returned with a polite notice that they no longer had the resources to answer research requests. I have yet to make formal plans to visit the institute but I know they have some comprehensive and unique files on Webb built vessels, and other vessels built in the New York area (19th century).

A couple of years ago Kaz located a newspaper article (great find), I believe from the early 1900s, that was based on an interview of a former Shreveport Station sailor. Granted, the details were hazy after so much time but the article did include his rough sketch of the Missouri and the Webb. From such a sketch one could get a fair idea of the extent of the deck house, funnel and mast and their locations relative to the wheels. I don't have my copy immediately at hand but perhaps Kaz can comment.

All the best,
Bil
Thank you Bil. Oddly the first rendition did have the machinery further forward, but it didn't look right to me so i moved it back ! I found the W H Webb picture on good old Wikipedia ! On reflection it may not be here as the hull lines don't appear to match. I had to think what was logical about the placing of the cotton bales and what that painting showed. The fore part corresponds to the sketch of her burning, but aft of the wheels I had to try to imagine what they would have done. Until proven otherwise I think this will be a work in progress !
 
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